Posted on Apr 21, 2015
SSG Ronald Williams
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M1a2
I am a former Tank Commander. The last of the heavy armor was moved from Europe about 2 years ago, now it is being moved back due to Russia's aggressive moves. Army command continues to tell Congress it does not want to continue production of heavy armor, but Congress continues to budget for it, most likely due to the economic impact on the cities where they are produced and upgraded. Does heavy armor have a place on the modern battlefield?
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 41
SFC Mark Merino
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Heavy armor will never be obsolete. I love the Stryker, but wouldn't expect it to defeat the sheer numbers of T-80's, etc that can be thrown at them. The psychological effect they have is a huge multiplier as well.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
Nothing can be added to this comment to add any more truth.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
>1 y
Until we develop Star Trek like shields, heavy armor will always be a necessity.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
>1 y
LTC Paul Labrador - actually, I wouldn't mind those shield the Gungans had in Star Wars "Phantom Menace" I mean those big bubbles were bad-@ssed against the droid artillery. Still cant figure out how droids can just walk through them though...
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SSG Program Control Manager
SSG (Join to see)
10 y
1SG Michael Blount - I figure it works based on the velocity of the incoming weapon. Sort of like how many ballistic vests will stop a bullet but not a knife.
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LTC John Shaw
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No, especially when you need to control territory. If we had even a few dozen M1A2 in Ukraine or near, Russia would not have the attitude they have now with Crimea and Ukraine.

Just because our last fight was COIN does not mean the next one will be.
We need heavy armor in Europe, Baltic states and Ukraine NOW.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
SGT Jeremiah B.
>1 y
Someone needs to find the guy responsible for the 2005 BRAC and kick him in the jumblies.
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CSM Brigade Operations (S3) Sergeant Major
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Is heavy armor outdated on the modern battlefield?
MAJ Contracting Officer
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Edited >1 y ago
Your enemy always gets to choose the type of war you will fight. Tanks are outdated now simply because no one else has the capacity to fight them. As soon as the tanks are gone, there will be a immediate and urgent need for them.

We never fight the last war because we train for that war, we always fight the war we are not training for.

The reason we fought an insurgency in Iraq was because they were so easily defeated in the conventional invasion. It took them a while to figure out what worked and IEDs became prominent. Simply because they were effective. While an MRAP is a great tool for IED's it is near worthless in a conventional attack.
If we were to limit our conventional forces or scrap the tanks our enemies simply would adjust back to the conventional fight.

I do think an M551 Sheridan or modern version would have been very useful in Afghanistan.

They will become obsolete when a man portable anti-armor weapon becomes a feasibility, like the laser death ray in the movie Congo.
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MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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Edited >1 y ago
I think those that say heavy armor is obsolete suffer from tunnel vision. They're basing their opinion solely upon the current conflicts. A tank is designed to rapidly seize territory and engage the enemy at stand-off range. They employ speed, shock, and tempo to their advantage to accomplish this. Urban environments significantly reduce the inherent advantages that armor brings to the table. COIN campaigns do as well, since restrained force is not a strong point of tanks either. Heavy Armor is admittedly not well suited to our current OEF campaign, nor was it particularly useful once Iraq transitioned to a counter-insurgency war.

However, basing our tactics and force structure upon the previous war has continued to be disastrous for the U.S. military. While an armor-centric force may not be the future, it is a capability we need to maintain. It's not unlike the vertical envelopment capabilities that airborne troops offer. They're not terribly useful in a COIN campaign either, but that doesn't mean we should drop the capability altogether. Nobody wants another Task Force Smith, where our unpreparedness and lack of equipment resulted in disaster.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
>1 y
you get it.
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MAJ Joe Bentley
MAJ Joe Bentley
9 y
I agree that heavy armory should be maintained for use when speed, shock and tempo are necessary. Armory can be effective in convoy security missions as well as in coordination with other combat assets in many situations.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
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I'm horribly biased, but NEVER! The problem is that we stare too long at one kind of war and forget that there are others. Sure, the Abrams had limited utility in heavily populated Iraqi cities or the mountains of Afghanistan, but it has an important place in maintaining a decisive weapon against forces that will have to fight you in the open across large swathes of land. Not every enemy will be a tribal hiding in a cave or village. Even then, Marine tanks in the Stan were stunningly effective when they could be brought to bear...that asshole hiding in a wadi 700m away taking potshots at you suddenly found himself a lot more visible and a lot less safe.
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SSG Ronald Williams
SSG Ronald Williams
>1 y
Stay on the Tank!
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SGT Jeremiah B.
SGT Jeremiah B.
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Stay on the Tank!
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
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Death before dismount....
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LTC Paul Labrador
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Part of the issue with continuing production is that once theproduction line goes cold, it is next to impossible to restart it again. So is it better to keep the line open, churning out small numbers of tanks than to shut it down in the hopes that we won't need to produce more?
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SFC Charles S.
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No, Heavy Armor is not outdated and If you have never watched the History Channel the Greatest Tank Battles, you have to see the Battle known as 73 Easting, Gulf War 1991. Tanks against Tanks are why we still have Tanks. Russia won't stop using tanks so, Mount up!
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SSG Ronald Williams
SSG Ronald Williams
>1 y
1st Armored 1/35th Armor was there!
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SFC William Swartz Jr
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No it is not!
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SSG Ronald Williams
SSG Ronald Williams
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That is the answer I was looking for!
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SGT Richard H.
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Edited >1 y ago
I think it does still have a place. Desert Storm is a great example.
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SGT Richard H.
SGT Richard H.
>1 y
One additional point: If we have to engage in ground combat with an enemy that uses heavy Armor (Which Russia basically builds their tactics around) what is better than Tanks to fight tanks? Especially when our tanks can see 4x as far!
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SGT Bryon Sergent
SGT Bryon Sergent
>1 y
Enough said.
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