Posted on Jul 8, 2016
Is it appropriate to confront a higher rank when they are blatantly disregarding regs?
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So last week I was at the chow hall with another girl from my squadron, and we see this SSgt wearing nearly black lipstick across the room. This is very obviously out of regs as makeup is to be conservative and lipstick can not contrast with your skin tone. She was obviously a higher rank than me or the airman I went to chow with, and neither of us said anything even though both of us desperately wanted to. She looked ridiculous. It was so bad that some male airmen at the table next to us noticed it and asked us about the reg. Anyway my question is, is it appropriate to confront a higher rank when they are blatantly disregarding regs?
PS There was a visiting 2 star across the chow hall at the time
PPS Sorry the pictures are so bad. We were far away.
PS There was a visiting 2 star across the chow hall at the time
PPS Sorry the pictures are so bad. We were far away.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 308
This is a difficult question and it is a relative one depending on the situation. There was an old saying when I was in "Regulations are open to interpretation; He who has the higher rank has the right interpretation." Because of some ambiguity in some regulations, policies, or local rules, it is best not to argue; unless the rules leave zero ambiguity, and ask the guidance of a Judge Advocate General Officer, or the author of a policy, for example, a commanding officer can write local policies for their unit.
Bottom line, it is okay to question, but if their response is that they are in the right, yet you are still not convinced, leave the conversation go ask someone who can make a proper interpretation of the rules. Otherwise disagreements could turn into tensions, which could be misconstrued as disrespect. Not everyone is level headed and as I sometimes saw when I was serving, rank can go to someones head pretty quickly.
Bottom line, it is okay to question, but if their response is that they are in the right, yet you are still not convinced, leave the conversation go ask someone who can make a proper interpretation of the rules. Otherwise disagreements could turn into tensions, which could be misconstrued as disrespect. Not everyone is level headed and as I sometimes saw when I was serving, rank can go to someones head pretty quickly.
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No you shoud find out her name and where she works and advise her NCOIC that the issue needs to be adressed.
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Yes, and I am with CSM O'Black who said use tact and respect when doing so. I was a junior Captain on Nuclear Alert with my aircrew, and we had a Brigidear General pulling alert with us as an alternate to the "Looking Glass", a 24/7 flying command post. He was like the #2 designated survivor for running WWIII if it happened. This BG decided he wanted to have a "discussion" with the 5 aircrews on alert, and his thing was wanting us to have pressed flight suits and spit polished flight boots. After hearing him out, I then asked if there had been an addendum to AFR 127-2 para 4 countermanding that no flamable material may be added to our uniforms when flying, nor could we dry clean our flight suits as it would remove the Nomex Dupont airamed flame resistance additive that was in our flight suits. Case was closed, we were never asked to dry clean or polish our flight suits and boots again.
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As long as you use tact and show respect there should be little reason not to confront your superior.
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Eh. It’s not black. It’s a dark maroon. Borderline. Are you in the AF? The refs always end up being vague and the final answer is at the discretion of the commander. If it’s not a person in your unit let the commander make that call. I’ve seen black females wear colors that white females can’t because of skin tone. If it were my troop she’d be wiping it off. But I’m Army and we are a bit stricter than the AF. If seen females with makeup nails jewelry and hair that we in the army would never be allowed to wear.
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It would be appropriate for someone that out ranked her. Just not you. My opinion.
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SPC Perry Gresham
I guess my opinion is inaccurate, it just seems to me that the problem being lipstick and not something that the higher ranking person could possibly have not noticed. Then there could be a reason unknown to you why the troop was wearing such a dark shade.
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When I was squeaky new airman, a TSgt showed me a tactful way to let someone know they needed a haircut. The new LT was looking a bit shaggy and when he popped in the office my NCO said, "Hey LT, I was going to get a haircut at lunch. Care to tag along?" He didn't take him up on the offer but had a fresh haircut the next morning.
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Not only is it appropriate for one soldier to point out regulation violations, it's required by regulations. There is no mention of rank in regulations past wearing the rank you've earned.
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Nowhere in the UCMJ does it say that someone of a lower rank cannot correct someone else of a higher rank. As an E-1, you technically have the right to correct an Officer, even if he’s an O-9. Of course, there’s a bit of common sense that should apply. First, be absolutely sure that you are in the right. And second, be respectful of the rank which that person has (hopefully) earned, as well as the position for which they’re assigned in. With that said, THEORETICALLY, there really shouldn’t be an issue. And for those who’ve ACTUALLY paid attention when they were developing their leadership skills (I say that cavalierly, as from many of the comments that I’ve seen in here, the military’s leadership has a VERY LONG, LONG WAYS TO GO, ESPECIALLY IN THE UPPER ENLISTED RANKS WHERE THE ATTITUDE OF “well, I had to do it” was their justification for not correcting piss poor leadership skills from the past) this won’t be an issue. But in the part that I put in parentheses lies true, expect problems. I often felt with senior enlisted when I was in that had that same type of attitude...’I’M THE BIG BAD (insert Chief, First Sargent, Gunny Sargent here), WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO TELL ME OR CORRECT ME ON WHAT I’M SUPPOSED TO DO?!??!!! I actually knew an E-6 that would go around with something wrong just so he could jump down lower ranking members’ throats when they attempted to correct him. He thought it was funny. I saw NOTHING funny about it. So along with the right to respectfully correct someone comes the right to put that person on report. But don’t take that lightly. You shouldn’t EVER place anyone on report until all lesser means have failed. It’s a last resort measure. But in doing so, make sure that you have proof of the violation, along with a record of everything you’ve done to correct that violation up until now. Others will try to convince you that you have no right to put a higher ranking person on report. Ask them to show you exactly where in the UCMJ that it says such a thing. IT DOESN’T. It doesn’t say you can either. But that’s not required, because the UCMJ is geared to what you can’t do, not what you can. For your evidence, I highly recommend that you take a picture with your camera phone. Camera phones are terrific. They’ve brought to light numerous abuses by those that have been put in positions of authority. Don’t hesitate to use it if needed. But don’t go posting stuff on YouTube or any other public site that’s taken on ANY MILITARY INSTALLATION no matter how trivial you think the topic of such a video might be or how benign the background of your video may appear. There’s people out there that want nothing more than to harm American Service Members. Something may be in your video that you didn’t even notice such as the layout of the base’s cafeteria that may be useful to such a person. ALWAYS KEEP OPSEC FIRST AND FOREMOST.
There are ways of putting an Officer on report as well. In the Navy, you simply requested Captain’s Mast. That’s your right. Captain’s Mast isn’t just a means for the CO to administer nonjudicial punishment. It’s also a means of forcing the Chain of Command to correct a serious issue, often one that’s been squashed by that chain that doesn’t want to either deal with it or that knows that they could be in serious trouble if such information came to light. Captain’s Mast requires detailed records that you have the right to obtain and push further up the Chain of Command, above that of your current command. And it works. I’ve seen serious problems suddenly and quickly get resolved simply because such a request was even threatened.
I’ve posted more than this issue should ever require. But it applies to numerous different issues regardless. The key take away(s) are 1) Be respectful of BOTH rank and job position, 2) make sure that you are correct, 3) make sure that you have evidence of the violation, 4) DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, 5) a report up the chain is the LAST STEP after all others have failed, 6) don’t violate OPSEC. And here I can add a 6th....NEVER GO AROUND BOOSTING ABOUT WHAT YOU HAD TO DO. You might come to regret that. Remember, these are people you have to work with. If not now, you might just find them in your Chain elsewhere. Respect goes well above and beyond the moment.
There are ways of putting an Officer on report as well. In the Navy, you simply requested Captain’s Mast. That’s your right. Captain’s Mast isn’t just a means for the CO to administer nonjudicial punishment. It’s also a means of forcing the Chain of Command to correct a serious issue, often one that’s been squashed by that chain that doesn’t want to either deal with it or that knows that they could be in serious trouble if such information came to light. Captain’s Mast requires detailed records that you have the right to obtain and push further up the Chain of Command, above that of your current command. And it works. I’ve seen serious problems suddenly and quickly get resolved simply because such a request was even threatened.
I’ve posted more than this issue should ever require. But it applies to numerous different issues regardless. The key take away(s) are 1) Be respectful of BOTH rank and job position, 2) make sure that you are correct, 3) make sure that you have evidence of the violation, 4) DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, 5) a report up the chain is the LAST STEP after all others have failed, 6) don’t violate OPSEC. And here I can add a 6th....NEVER GO AROUND BOOSTING ABOUT WHAT YOU HAD TO DO. You might come to regret that. Remember, these are people you have to work with. If not now, you might just find them in your Chain elsewhere. Respect goes well above and beyond the moment.
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