Posted on Jan 9, 2016
Is it fair that Reservists, particularly AGR, get promoted so much quicker than Active Duty?
88.9K
219
110
5
5
0
I work with an Airman who entered the military around the same time as me, but as a reservist. I recall us both being E3s in 2013. About one week ago I ran into her and she was wearing a Tech Sergeant stripe (E6)! It's only been three years since she was an E3!
She informed me that in the reserves you promote when your shop needs to fill a certain slot. You don't have to test either?
It all seems a little screwy to me and I wonder how others feel?
She informed me that in the reserves you promote when your shop needs to fill a certain slot. You don't have to test either?
It all seems a little screwy to me and I wonder how others feel?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 55
My how things have changed. When I went from AD to Reserves I put on Tech for two reasons. 1. I was filling a Tech slot and 2. I was already a 7 level in my prior field. That was only temporary too. I had to achieve a 7 level in the new field for it to be permanent. Circumstances forced me to leave the reserves before I got the 7 level and discharged as SSgt. My knowledge although outdated may still be relevant. You move into the next pay grade or promoted if you will when A) a vacancy exists, B) you have at least minimum time in grade and C) have appropriate skill level or ability to achieve it. I knew an admin WAF at McClellan in a Reserve slot. She was in Reserves for 13 years and was an E-9....go figure.
(2)
(0)
SMSgt William Gardner
The difference now is that you may have been asked to perform the duties of that position but not promoted into it...even temporarily. Once you actually obtained the 7 level and all the other mandated requirements you would be promoted nowadays.
(1)
(0)
I would be more concerned about the safety aspect rather than the fairness of it. Many younger service members are very mature and have good heads on their shoulders. But, putting too much responsibility on them before they have a chance see how it's done and develop leadership skills can have disastrous results for them and those around them.
(2)
(0)
Life is not fair. We all made our professional and life choices. It took me almost 18 years to make MSgt in the Traditional side. Life goes on and so will the hating.
(1)
(0)
Lastly, sorry... Focus on your career path and goals! Don't worry about what or who is getting what and when. Get a mentor or two that will give you proper guidance and knows what you have to accomplish in order to be successful. Get your AFSC quails done, get your PME done, get your CCAF, get your college education done, etc. Tracking?
(1)
(0)
Well, it depends on slots. I made E5 in 97. Promotion rate on active duty in 118X1 was 18 percent. I joined reserve in 99, promoted to tech in 2000. I stayed a tech for 8 years. I made E7 by doing the PEP program. I had to compete against everyone in the reserve to go one stripe higher. All in reserve, not just my career field. Made E7 in 2008. 8 years later, still an E7. Can only go above one stripe, so unless someone leaves or dies or I cross train and hope I go to a Unit that isnt full and has an E7 slot for me, I will stay an E7. So it can work both ways, you could get to E7, but your career can end there, not because your not deserving, but it's about slots. Oh, and I was told by my commander who doesn't have a masters degree, that if I did get an E7 slot and tried to PEP again to E8 I would need to have my Masters to be competitive, B.S. wouldn't be enough. Fair? Life isn't fair, but there are different routes, up to the individual to make their goals happen.
(1)
(0)
MSgt (Join to see)
Also, this person had to have met TIG, plus PME completed to be promoted. So it wasn't given to her.
(0)
(0)
I am currently a USAFR E-5 and my flight/platoon makes us take the E-7 PME before we can get promoted to E-6. Their reasoning is that we should perform and lead as if we were one grade ahead. I've taken the 2 part test a few times, hopefully I will pass it soon.
(1)
(0)
There are specific TIG/TIS gates that one must meet to promote. The ANG (AFRC as far as I know) does not test, but you still need all the normal EPME requirements such as ALS for SSgt, NCOA for TSgt, SNCOA for SMSgt. SrA to SSgt is 18 months TIG + 5 level + ALS, SSgt to TSgt is 2 yrs TIG + NCOA, TSgt to MSgt is 2 yrs TIG, MSgt to SMSgt is 2 yrs TIG + SNCOA (+ CCAF in many units). For your question about it being fair, I would offer a similar opinion as most everyone else that has responded. I think it is good to be aware of how other services/commands function, but in the end only "worry" about your own career and the things that are in your control.
(1)
(0)
It's a doubled-edged sword. After years of active duty seeing how hard Airmen worked on the WAPS program for promotion, I found the in-unit promotions both refreshing (in terms of lower-echelon leaders putting their best personnel in the right jobs) and a little nerve-racking, seeing such young Reservist TSgts wanting to have social lives with their AD SrA friends who are the same ages. And as mentioned above, for every really young TSgt I've seen out there (usually performing on par with the rank), I've seen older SrA and SSgts waiting for their dream positions to open up in a unit they love.
I worked with Army units for the first 5 years of my career (Army doesn't have weather personnel, they use Air Force) and I noticed the same sort of thing at the Active Component Army company level: company commanders (Captains) could promote/demote in-unit (up to E-7 I believe). At first I didn't think that was fair, compared to our AD WAPS program, but over time I noticed how much more effective it was for the leaders to put their own best people in the right jobs, and remove the wrong people.
For what it's worth, beyond about E-7 (and the officer ranks), it seemed to me like the promotion process got more complicated. Yes there are still position-vacancy promotions out there, but if you aren't able to take advantage of those, the time-in-grade promotions flex with the active force manning. So we see our board dates shift around accordingly.
I can't say that it's "fair" or not, but AD and Reserves are different enough that different promotion programs are completely warranted.
I worked with Army units for the first 5 years of my career (Army doesn't have weather personnel, they use Air Force) and I noticed the same sort of thing at the Active Component Army company level: company commanders (Captains) could promote/demote in-unit (up to E-7 I believe). At first I didn't think that was fair, compared to our AD WAPS program, but over time I noticed how much more effective it was for the leaders to put their own best people in the right jobs, and remove the wrong people.
For what it's worth, beyond about E-7 (and the officer ranks), it seemed to me like the promotion process got more complicated. Yes there are still position-vacancy promotions out there, but if you aren't able to take advantage of those, the time-in-grade promotions flex with the active force manning. So we see our board dates shift around accordingly.
I can't say that it's "fair" or not, but AD and Reserves are different enough that different promotion programs are completely warranted.
(1)
(0)
Yes, it's fair because the lady you speak of could have possibly have been a E-3 for 9 years, the system goes both ways, if there are slots available and you qualify for the promotion then you are promoted, what you have to understand is the Guard/Reserves are more of a civilian organization of promotion vs active and the benefits are quite different, where you receive a pay check based off your rank every pay check others with the exception of full time technician only get that on a pro-rated pay for the two days a month they have drill and for the annual two weeks of training or deployments. Additionally Guard/Reserv do not get BAS/BAH/COLA/ etc the costs and incentives you receive significantly out weight the promotion standards. The only personnel with thin the Guard/Reserves that have those incentives are recruiters.
(1)
(0)
I get it, but on the flip side when I was in the AG, my AFSC did not have any slots for anything above E5, so once you hit E5 you were done. Sounds like your friend lucked out, in her particular situation.
(1)
(0)
I tend to not question Guard/Reserve anymore. We had a guy go through tech school with us who sewed on SrA immediately after graduation. They can promote you through the first few ranks quick but it's also very easy to hit a point where you don't go any further for a very long time. As others have said, they promote you when a position holding that rank opens up. That could be a few months after your training or a few years.
(1)
(0)
SSgt Bob Lamary
I was one from the PA ANG who sewed on A1C (E-3) upon graduation because I had a 4 year degree.
(0)
(0)
I would have to say that I am 50/50 on this. I have seen some AGR soldiers struggle to get their promotions. I know for me, I came in as an E4 and no matter how many times I was recommended for the board because of my high PT and leadership skills and civ ed, I was told no because I needed more time in grade and service. Nothing about them needing a slot filled. I was sitting in an NCO slot to begin with and still didn't get promoted. I didn't mind so much because I wanted to learn my job well but others did. I finally got promoted this past AUG though. Now, I have seen where TDY soldiers were going up in ranks pretty fast because they were "buddy buddy" with certain individuals. I have 2 AD battle buddies who are being forced out for failure to progress simply because they didn't want to. No matter how hard their SNCO's pressed, they were content. Another they aren't allowing to reenlist because he had surgery done and just sat back and did nothing but blame his surgeries. So, I think that it all depends on the individual and where they are as far as their duty stations because that is not the truth for all. You never know. Screwy, most certainly but there is really no way to tell unless you catch someone in the act.
(1)
(0)
I would also like to add an opinion/request in regards to this discussion. Rather you're Active, separated, or retired we all went through similar teachings.
Derogatory remarks directed to or about other service members is not only a true representation of your character, but something that would land you in deep water if your were still held accountable under UCMJ.
I don't appreciate reading it and I'm confident others would agree that we need to "lock it up". I'm not trying to be the stereotypical "sensitive" service member that many feel like we have nowadays, just would like to see people treat others with the respect we all deserve. Thank You
Derogatory remarks directed to or about other service members is not only a true representation of your character, but something that would land you in deep water if your were still held accountable under UCMJ.
I don't appreciate reading it and I'm confident others would agree that we need to "lock it up". I'm not trying to be the stereotypical "sensitive" service member that many feel like we have nowadays, just would like to see people treat others with the respect we all deserve. Thank You
(1)
(0)
I do feel that they should not promote as quick as they currently do. As an example, guard obtain their rank by being hired into a position that requires a certain rank to hold it. But what I have to go back to is where reserve and guard augment active duty. Do we want to have a VERY inexperienced leader heading a no fail mission? Not necessarily. That doesn't state that they can't do it but it does put them at a perceived downfall.
(1)
(0)
It all depends on the installation. Before I returned to AD, we used an Army style promotion board to determine fit for promotion. With that said…what can you do? As a medic, I returned to active more “ready” than 90% of those in the AF according to SKT and observed performance. Of course, for the life of me I didn’t know what the overall size of a hair clip should be without consulting the regs but on AD we had many, many promote knowing very little about their purpose and job but knew exactly who broke wind on the first AF designated aircraft. For 180 days I supervised the UCC at PSAB as an Air National Guard E-6 but lost 2 stripes when returning to AD. I also couldn’t for SSgt test my first time elegible after return because the system couldn’t recognize a 7 level E-4 (my contract stipulated maintaining my skill level…that’s another adventure in itself). With that in my…If the AFR and ANG are not qualified to hold that rank when returning to AD, why are they put in leadership positions while activated under title 10? I spent 16 years back on AD prior to retirement but from my experience, give me the those people who train more to be ready 38 days out of the month than those who “look” ready but are too busy selling cookies, hanging decorations for a ball, or volunteering out of the work center to be truly ready. I never had a Guard commander make the excuse that “unfortunately…Iraq and Afghanistan are our training grounds”.
(0)
(0)
Good question. When I was in ROTC in college a friend joined the Army Guard. His commander called him in before he left for basic, because he had "come college" he promoted him to 2nd Lt!! From "slick sleeve" to "Butter Bar," in minutes, skipping basic training!! A meteoric rise!
(0)
(0)
Nothing is fair, its the opposite for commissioned officers. My counterparts who stayed on active duty who commissioned around the same time are already O5's. I just saw on my FB feed a guy who I went to field training with in 2000 just got selected for O6. I am still an O4 that will be just now heading to the O5 board this summer, with no guarantee to get it.
As for reservist enlisted getting promoted too early, it can be their career killer if they are not ready to be in the grade. I supervised a guy who fast tracked to E8 too fast and he was not ready and his position went away and he had to get a waiver to work in an E6 billet. While it may seem like a good deal, they could be hosed at the end of the day.
As for reservist enlisted getting promoted too early, it can be their career killer if they are not ready to be in the grade. I supervised a guy who fast tracked to E8 too fast and he was not ready and his position went away and he had to get a waiver to work in an E6 billet. While it may seem like a good deal, they could be hosed at the end of the day.
(0)
(0)
I absolutely hate it. When you have someone join the reserves or NG and they make it all the way up to SFC and then go active duty, they're a hot mess and have no idea what they are doing.
(0)
(0)
Well its the opposite for Officers. We put on the next grade a few years later than our AD counterparts. I am fine with that, TBH. You might think this is a good deal for a reservist in the E ranks to promote. It can actually be detrimental to their careers if they promote too fast and are not ready for the responsibility. In the reserves we have a saying that you can promote yourself out of a job.
I can attest to an E-8 who I supervised that this happened to. After a few years of being a reservist I supervised an E-8 who had rapidly crawled up the rank ladder in his previous career. I can attest that he was not suited for the role at all. In fact I was floored on the amount of supervision he required for mundane things involving his own career. I was used to SNCO's who for one wanted to have minimal officer involvement into their world. SNCO's being very aggressive in their own careers I was shocked on how much attention I had to give to this individual. He was not a bad guy, but he was very ill-prepared for his rank and the requirements to be there. In fact the amount of attention that he required was on the level that in my previous life I would have to give to younger Airman basically out of high school.
When I say you can promote yourself out of a job, that damn near happened to him. We both lost our slots to IMA funding cuts. We both had to find new homes. I found one in my current unit. He had a tough time and was trying to find an E-8 or E-9 billet. No one wanted to accept him as he did not have a strong record. I had to write very weak EPR's on him, not because I wanted to. It was because no matter creative I tried to be to give him a decent write up, it was probably painfully obvious to any outsider looking in that he did not have any meaningful or impactful bullet statements. He had not done what was normally required at that level. It was clearly obvious he was not someone another unit wanted to fill an SNCO slot. I tried to help him find a job and we were at a stand still. At the end of the day he eventually got a job, but had to be waived to fill a lower ranking billet that they had issues filling. They put in E-8 into an E-6 slot. Basically he was now working two levels below his pay grade. This pretty much was the career ender. There will be no way short of nuclear war that he will ever be a Chief.
I don't fault him, I fault his prior raters who put him in a position to fail. His prior leadership failed to properly guide him on to have a successful NCO career. I learned a few years later that perhaps promoting him was intentional as a means to get him out of their unit. That can never be confirmed, but as soon as he made E-8 he had to find a another position as his previous unit had no E-8 slots and were not going to let him into an E-9 billet.
I can attest to an E-8 who I supervised that this happened to. After a few years of being a reservist I supervised an E-8 who had rapidly crawled up the rank ladder in his previous career. I can attest that he was not suited for the role at all. In fact I was floored on the amount of supervision he required for mundane things involving his own career. I was used to SNCO's who for one wanted to have minimal officer involvement into their world. SNCO's being very aggressive in their own careers I was shocked on how much attention I had to give to this individual. He was not a bad guy, but he was very ill-prepared for his rank and the requirements to be there. In fact the amount of attention that he required was on the level that in my previous life I would have to give to younger Airman basically out of high school.
When I say you can promote yourself out of a job, that damn near happened to him. We both lost our slots to IMA funding cuts. We both had to find new homes. I found one in my current unit. He had a tough time and was trying to find an E-8 or E-9 billet. No one wanted to accept him as he did not have a strong record. I had to write very weak EPR's on him, not because I wanted to. It was because no matter creative I tried to be to give him a decent write up, it was probably painfully obvious to any outsider looking in that he did not have any meaningful or impactful bullet statements. He had not done what was normally required at that level. It was clearly obvious he was not someone another unit wanted to fill an SNCO slot. I tried to help him find a job and we were at a stand still. At the end of the day he eventually got a job, but had to be waived to fill a lower ranking billet that they had issues filling. They put in E-8 into an E-6 slot. Basically he was now working two levels below his pay grade. This pretty much was the career ender. There will be no way short of nuclear war that he will ever be a Chief.
I don't fault him, I fault his prior raters who put him in a position to fail. His prior leadership failed to properly guide him on to have a successful NCO career. I learned a few years later that perhaps promoting him was intentional as a means to get him out of their unit. That can never be confirmed, but as soon as he made E-8 he had to find a another position as his previous unit had no E-8 slots and were not going to let him into an E-9 billet.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next