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Posted on Jun 24, 2014
CPT Jacob Swartout
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Would it make more logical sense to have an assigned 42A MOS qualified human resource specialist at the company level for admin? As you know, units just train up someone in a different MOS to do administrative work. Would a change in the unit's MTOE to authorize this personnel move at the company level be something worth considering in your opinion?
Posted in these groups: Ag regimental insignia 42A: Human Resources Specialist
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SFC Senior Human Resources Sergeant
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Sir, I totally agree. It makes everyone's job a little bit easier. When I was a BN S1, I had some non 42A company PACs. It is okay to train these high speed Soldiers on personnel stuff but the problem is they cannot get any access on any of the systems that we use because of the simple fact that they're not 42s. A simple PT or weapons update to me should be done in company level but BN always end up doing these little updates because they don't have access.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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cross training is good for all
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1SG Human Resources Specialist
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SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh stated it very well. This is one of those great in theory, not very practical ideas. 42A is a low density MOS to begin with and while you may think a -10 level would suffice, the skill set of the person would most likely not be sufficient to do the job. It would take -20 level to ensure enough time in service to have developed the required skills to really be an asset. Even then, there is no guarantee. And you would have to either increase the Army end strength (good luck) or request to swap out an existing slot in your MTOE for a 42A slot. And this change would have to be agreed upon by EVERY major unit in the Army that uses the same MTOE structure (again, good luck in getting every Fires Brigade to agree on anything!). A more plausible solution is to have the company admin Soldier conduct low density training with the BN S1 staff at least twice a month. Most of what an admin clerk does is easily acquired skill that a seasoned Senior HR Sergeant (ahem!) could train them on.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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I friend of mine thought that the new 10 level could start at BN and once they become a E-4, the experience would be good enough to work at a CO/TRP level. Again the whole Army would need to agree on such a move as you mentioned. Chances are that won't happen anytime in the next few decades.
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1SG Human Resources Specialist
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CPT Jacob Swartout it's a practical idea in theory but when you get into the weeds of how it will work in reality, it's just not plausible. Not with the Army mindset on downsizing. I do feel that you could achieve some level of success by have those personnel train with the BN S1. I had some success with it but not all my companies were on board with the idea.
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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Sir, I think this is a great idea and needs to be implemented. Placing an experienced SPC or PFC as the admin clerk for each company/troop would be a boon for the administration side. I think it would definitely help alleviate paperwork going from a unit to higher.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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Keeps other soldiers from being left out of their MOS training. I knew one NCO who had the position for 2 yrs and when he went back to work in his MOS, he was behind in experience
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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Most definitely. Does a major disservice to not just the soldier but also to the military AND the taxpayers.
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1SG Human Resources Specialist
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CPT Jacob Swartout it sounds like that NCO had a disservice done to them by their 1SG and CDR. You know your admin NCO is not a 42A, so don't keep them in this additional duty for longer than 1yr. He/She may be the best admin NCO you ever had, but do the right thing for the Soldier and let them go back to their career field.
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Is it logical to have an assigned 42A MOS qualified human resource specialist at the company level for admin?
SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
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As I've been told it does raise some issues when trying to do that. First would be experience level. As I see it the slot should be a 20 skill level. Reason being is that if you make it a 10 skill level there is no guarantee that you will get someone that is not straight out of School and putting a PVT in that position where they have to deal with senior leadership of a company is a bad idea. Some might say well just assign only seasoned SPCs to these assignments. My experience has been there is no such thing as a code that says you have to have X years experience before going into a slot. If the slot is coded for 10 level soldiers you will get Privates right out of school in those slots.

Second is manpower. We have an end strength in the Army (I know shocking) So if you create a new slot one slot has to go away. Now your talking about doing this across the Army. How many MTOE companies are there in the Army? That's a lot of Soldiers someone is going to have to give up to fill this requirement.

Even with these issues it's definitely a good conversation to have. My company has a 42A2O assigned to it because we are geographically separated from our Battalion. It works great as we get a lot of the support that we would normally not be able to get by having that Soldier there.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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something would have to give in order to create a slot. Could be if another MOS was downsizing, they could plus up on 42As.
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SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
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And that sir is the big question, who do we cut. I know from what I have read on the Engineer branch if you asked to cut there for these slots from us the regiment would rather just stick a 12 series in the position than lose any more Engineers.
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CPT Battalion S1
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42A skill 10 are being cut as well. But of course if you changed the MTOE, that may eliminate the need to cut the "overstrength" 42As in the Army.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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It would take a long overhaul on what is needed and many leaders would have their opinions on who has to go or stay.
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1SG Charles Lyons
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I used to put my driver and the CO's driver to work! AND I ensured my PAC did their job! I even learned how to type memos, file documents, and issue meal cards. That was after they took the Personnel Specialist out of the company years ago!
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SGT Cavalry Instructor
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Sir, I've always said that with the armorer's position.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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That too is the other one but as we know the Army won't change that position.
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SGT Cavalry Instructor
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Actually, it's supplies job. They are taught Arms Rm tasks in their AIT.
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SSG Operations Sergeant
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Edited >1 y ago
The MTOE in the Army is messed up, I am the only 88M30 in an MP BN. I currently serve as the HHD Operations Sergeant responsible for the training, admin, and day to day operations for a 75 Soldier Detachment. I have no training NCO nor a admin NCO. I have had 5 Sergeant's Major (incuding my BN and BDE) tell me I should not be in this position (Non MTOE). I have now been in position 32 months, had 4 Commanders, and 4 Detachment Sergeants. Tell me does that make sense? Sorry for typo's I am posting from my phone.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
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You likely have more time than the actual S1 personnel in your unit for sure.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
MSG(P) Michael Warrick
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Is this a ARNG or Reserve unit? If so, the manning goes off the blue book!
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SSG Operations Sergeant
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Active duty
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