Your Response was posted! Click here to see it.
Posted on Jan 31, 2017
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
16.8K
115
56
2
2
0
I have been reading the news and social media too much lately on this temporary immigration/travel ban. One argument I keep hearing is if it saves one American life it is worth it. I have heard this same argument made on gun control. I know there is better arguments for this temp ban but the one I indicated is a poor one.
Avatar feed
See Results
Responses: 19
SFC Pete Kain
18
18
0
That is just a silly argument. The Constitution guaranties Gun Rights. Immigration is a privilege. Why is that so hard to understand?
(18)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
SFC Pete Kain Just so we are on the same page I have no problem with the temp ban. My problem is one of the arguments being used to be for it. I have argued with anti-gunners before making the same argument. "If it saves one American it is worth it." I think we can make a better argument for it.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SFC Pete Kain
SFC Pete Kain
9 y
Cpl (Join to see) - We are on the same page.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MSG Mark Million
MSG Mark Million
9 y
Short, Simple, and Appropriate.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT William Howell
7
7
0
One is a Constitutional right and one is for the security of the nation. They are not the same.
(7)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
SGT William Howell Yes, I they are not the same but the argument used is wrong in both cases.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
9 y
Cpl (Join to see) - Not sure what you mean. Let me know what you are thinking.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
SGT William Howell - The issues are different I agree. The argument of "if it saves one American life" is wrong.

Sorry about before I re-read and it is confusing.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Public Affairs Officer
6
6
0
As I mentioned in an earlier post when you brought this up, the Constitution covers gun rights for American citizens, whereas the immigration ban is not covered under the Constitution.
(6)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
LTC (Join to see) Yes, our discussion inspired my post.

I am not against the temp ban I just don't like the argument being made for it.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Is it okay to use the same argument on immigration as anti-gunners use for gun control?
See Results
SPC Casey Ashfield
5
5
0
I strongly dislike the "if it can save one life" argument. It is a logical fallacy that requires the ability to see into the future of what "might have been" in determining consequences.

Immigration is the legal process of entering a country to become a permanent resident and citizen. Illegal immigration is circumventing a nation's laws and entering a country illegally. It boggles the mind how people forget that little illegal part.
(5)
Comment
(0)
SGT Aaron Atwood
SGT Aaron Atwood
9 y
I don't think they necessarily forget. I think that they assume we'll just forgive their act of coming here illegally as most Democrats have openly promised to do.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
Yes SPC Casey Ashfield that is the correct argument to make for this case.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSG Steve Wiersgalla
4
4
0
As a service member that brought home a foreign bride through the long and expensive legal immigration policy I have been very upset about the lack of illegal immigration enforcement. Immigration is not a right. I am not against immigration however it must be done the same across the board. The argument of "if it saves one American life whether it be anti gun or immigration is a piss poor argument. The right to bear arms is a right not a privilege, immigration is a privilege that must be taken seriously and investigated and only granted to those worthy of such a privilege.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Christopher Brose
4
4
0
Edited 9 y ago
No. I would never use that argument because it's such an utterly crappy argument. It's especially crappy when gun controllers use it because there are so many documented instances of guns saving lives, but it would be equally crappy in any other context. All that has to be shown to discredit the argument is that more than one person could be harmed by whatever it is that's supposed to save just one life.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
Good point! I'm in as long is it's for the children.
SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
9 y
I was told by a professor a long time ago, "Anytime someone says 'it is for the children' it is because they have no merit behind their argument and they have to hope to pull on the heart strings."
(1)
Reply
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
9 y
SGT William Howell - If that means their position is indefensible and their an idiot then I agree!
SGT William Howell
SGT William Howell
9 y
MAJ Charles Blake - That is exactly what it means. Just curious, do you use a sledge hammer to drive nails. :-)
(0)
Reply
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
9 y
SGT William Howell - Only if my fingers are clear.
SMSgt Timothy Cathers
3
3
0
Immigration to the USA is not a right. To keep and bare arms is a right. Apples and door knobs.
(3)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
SMSgt Timothy Cathers I understand the two issues are different. It is the argument of "if it saves one American" that gets under my skin. There are plenty of good reason's for the current pause on immigration.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Chris Cargile
Cpl Chris Cargile
9 y
Pithy!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Hh 60 G Maintainer
2
2
0
There are laws in place for both subjects. We don't need new laws, just enforcement of existing laws. What makes anyone think that making new laws that won't be enforced either will do any good?
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Justin Goolsby
2
2
0
No. The main reason is gun rights are expressly written out in the Constitution whereas immigration not so much. Firearms are a right. Coming to this Country from another sovereign land is a privilege we allow... much in the same manner as driving is a privilege and not a right.

Honestly, I've never heard the anti-immigration argument you speak of until I read this question. I have heard that anti-gun argument many many times, but not in the name of immigration.

If you are looking for a better argument in favor of this temporary ban on immigration, then this is what I usually tell people.

We've been shown our vetting processes are ineffective. We need to create and implement better processes to ensure the safety and security of our people. This is not a permanent ban. It is a temporary hold until we can identify the failures in our own system.

If you have a car with faulty brakes, do you continue driving it, or do you wait until you get the brakes looked at and fixed. Sure we could continue to risk driving on the faulty brakes, but eventually we'll be driving down hill and our luck will run out.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
9 y
Cpl Justin Goolsby I was referring to the temporary ban President Trump has just ordered. Now I am not against this temporary ban because the way it is written sounds pretty reasonable. I just hate the argument of "if it saves one American it is worth it." I have seen this used multiple times.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Justin Goolsby
Cpl Justin Goolsby
9 y
Cpl (Join to see) - I am aware of the ban you are speaking of, I've just never heard someone use the argument "if it can save one life" in regards to it.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close