Posted on Jan 31, 2017
Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
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I have been reading the news and social media too much lately on this temporary immigration/travel ban. One argument I keep hearing is if it saves one American life it is worth it. I have heard this same argument made on gun control. I know there is better arguments for this temp ban but the one I indicated is a poor one.
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SSG Aircraft Mechanic
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In both cases the left wants to punish law abiding citizens while victimizing, enabling, and supporting criminals all to support their own agenda.
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Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
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SSG (Join to see) The problem is the right is using it for one case and the left is using it for a second. It is a poor argument to make.
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SFC William "Bill" Moore
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Aside from being a right to firearms ownership with a Constitution backing it up, it would be similar to the "apples and oranges" comparison. Yes the are both, conceivably, dangerous (immigrants/firearms) or both fruit (apples/oranges), but drastically different. A single firearm, in the hand of a dedicated and trained individual can cause serious carnage, whereas a dedicated individual, with limited training can detonate a device with catastrophic results. Firearms are not fleeing to the US, demanding benefits, protesting, or creating areas governed by sharia law. Firearms are not wondering the streets on their own, in singles or gangs, accosting, raping and killing citizens. Firearms are not draining the coffers of entitlements, set aside for legal citizens. Firearms are not trafficking illegal drugs, killing folks while driving drunk, nor flooding the economy with cheap labor. On their own, firearms are not rioting in the streets causing millions of dollars of destruction, not mention, again, the death and injuries inflicted by fists, knives, fire, bricks and so on. A determined individual will kill you with whatever they have and are comfortable with using. Immigrants come to the US with, at times, vastly different values, ideologies, religions and intent. Firearms have no bias either way, no conscious thinking or intent, well,,,,,,because they are a tool, the same as a hammer or wrench. They can no more influence the actions of the carpenter or mechanic in, either, good work/intentions, or otherwise.
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Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
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SFC William "Bill" Moore It is the argument of "if it saves one American" that really bothers me here. I am not against a pause on immigration to get things right but when you make that argument whether it is for gun control or this current temp ban I think it is disingenuous.
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SFC William "Bill" Moore
SFC William "Bill" Moore
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Cpl (Join to see) No, I did not think you were against the ban. I too have the same issue with the "if it saves one American life" statement that is thrown around. Believe me, that has been said to me in the last couple of days and I had to break it down as I did above. I actually had a box of pens setting on my desk, dumped them on the desktop, told him to pick out the bad ones, I picked one up and jabbed him (gently) in the arm, threw the pen back in the pile and told him to pick out the offender. He gave me a surprised look and pointed at me. I smiled and said "Exactly." Of course he has had a hard on for gun control since I have been working here, but knew how I felt and left me alone. Then, during one of his complaints about the immigration hiatus, he brought that out.
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SFC George Smith
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it's the Liberal and Progressive "MO."... read the Book Rules for Radicals By Saul Alinski...
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CSM Richard StCyr
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I say no, because immigration to the US is a privilege not a rite. Gun ownership is a rite guaranteed by the constitution.
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SFC Dave Beran
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You are talking apples and oranges. Your question covers all immigration. Not the current ban of 7 countries. Using it for straight immigration policies is ignorant. Using it on the vetting policy and ban is quite different. Also banning guns in citizens hands has ever saved a life, and firearms in the hands of trained citizens has been proven to save lives. I personally would not vote on this loaded question.
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Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
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SFC Dave Beran Forgive me, I was referring to the current temporary ban that I am not against. I jus think that using the "if it saves one American" argument is a terrible argument no matter the subject matter.
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CSM Thomas McGarry
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Not really a yes or no question in my opinion-Guns in the right hands have on occasion saved lives and I suppose you can also argue that most illegal immigrants which I'm assuming you are referring to add something to our society. I think we as a sovereign nation have a right-no a responsibility to do what we need to do to protect our citizens. If this is in response to the President's recent temporary limits on immigration from 7 other countries I would at other Presidents including Obama have place temporary limits without all the fuss I see with our current President's actions!
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MAJ Raymond Brooks
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The question is not about immigration. Immigration is LEGALLY coming to a country and following that countries laws, in order to meld into that society. Illegal aliens, coming to this country to either A - live off our welfare system, or B - try to force their beliefs and legal system on US citizens, or C - become involved in some sort of terrorist mission. "Gun Control" is not about guns, it is about control, and not what you or I think about when we talk gun control.
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SPC Johnney Abbott
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That's comparing Apples to oranges I think. Ones a right for your safety and the other is a temporary ban for the whole country's safety.
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Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
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SPC Johnney Abbott Let me try a different approach. If Obamacare only saved one life it is worth it.
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SPC Johnney Abbott
SPC Johnney Abbott
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No because we're more less forced into Obamacare. The 2A is a Right. It's yours to use if you wish. You pay for Obamacare one way or anotherCpl (Join to see) -
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Cpl Security Investigator And Trainer
Cpl (Join to see)
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SPC Johnney Abbott I don't want Obamacare please don't force on me. The argument for saving one life is not a good argument.
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SPC Johnney Abbott
SPC Johnney Abbott
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Cpl (Join to see) - but it's comparing apples and oranges again. One is a right and the other is forced on is.
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LTC Program Manager
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Immigration control is wrong for the same reasons gun control is wrong.

Freedom
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SGT Jay Guardia
SGT Jay Guardia
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I think you missed my point. We have as much right as a country to claim sovereignty as a home owner has the right to claim their own home. We can't just open our doors to everyone and let the "home owners" pay for everything.
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LTC Program Manager
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Oh, I don't think we should pay people to move here. The welfare state is a different issue. If thats your point I think we both agree.
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SGT Jay Guardia
SGT Jay Guardia
9 y
What I'm trying to say sir, is that I believe people who generally advocate open borders aren't thinking about the fact that it's the working people who are paying for the resources that they consume. I'm referring to our education, medical, and government resources that millions upon millions are using. It's an epidemic that I believe most people don't realize the reality of the size of the problem. I believe Trump realizes it. I'm not prejudicial at all. I love all people, but at the same time I want to preserve our country. It's my opinion that the epidemic has to stop. It's also my opinion that Islam has no place in our country because of the violent foundation of that religion. Freedom of religion... UNLESS IT'S VIOLENT or OPPRESSIVE towards women! But that's another subject on it's own. Look at what's happened in Europe where their own police are chased out of Muslim NO GO zones. I don't want to see that happen in the God blessed United States of America.
France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpxkFKHm6w8
UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGflPYI2g_s
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SGT Jay Guardia
SGT Jay Guardia
9 y
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