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Posted on Sep 3, 2020
Is it "pointless" to scope an AR if using 5.56/.223?
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Firearms and Guns
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Firearms and Guns Marksmanship
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
It certainly does. I had myself convinced it "made sense" if someone wasn't trying to hit 1,000 yards plus... or take out a vehicle's engine block when they got there. I'll admit that the fellas telling me the idea was "crap" might be the sort to drop the cash for a "custom" precision weapon... I'm poor and optimistic LOL!
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I guess it depends on what you are using the weapon for.
If you are target shooting long distance it makes sense. You might want to spend a little more and upgrade your ammo to match grade.
If the weapon is for personal defense or sport shooting within 30 yards, a laser dot or holographic scope makes much more sense. For me anyway.
There are rails that allow for mounting both of them.
If you are target shooting long distance it makes sense. You might want to spend a little more and upgrade your ammo to match grade.
If the weapon is for personal defense or sport shooting within 30 yards, a laser dot or holographic scope makes much more sense. For me anyway.
There are rails that allow for mounting both of them.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
I agree. Personally, I like the way the Navy went: Mk18 for CQB, Mk12 for longer ranges where they needed more speed/less weight than traditional, bolt action weapons. I feel like less a "noob" now... everyone can't have a Barrett in the safe just for "fun".
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Ii scope all of them even the .17. My AR platform weapon also has additional side mount Iron sites, for the close in work.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
Nice. I do think 77 grain and a 1:7 twist is the way to go though... get as much velocity and mass as possible out of the little 5.56.
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SPC Steven Nihipali
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - why are 1:7 barrels so hard to find and more expensive? All the factory are 1:8 or 9
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
SPC Steven Nihipali - I'm just guessing, but I think everything is hard to find right now... people are buying everything up faster than it can be restocked (that, or it's artificial scarcity driving higher prices).
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I wouldn't need a scope on my AR-Pistol, but a friend of mine pops groundhogs at over 300 yards with his scoped, customized AR-15. My use is better served by a red-dot.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
As I understand it (and I could be wrong)... most AR "pistols" are in the 10" barrel range (if not less). Can't imagine a scope being much use on one of those... and a "red dot" would be essential (again, IMHO). The Navy's Mk18 seems to mirror this concept.
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SGT Steve McFarland
LCDR Joshua Gillespie Mine has a 7.5" barrel and an arm-brace, which qualifies as a "pistol".
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie I suppose that depends on what the weapon is being used for. I typically use mine for less than 75yds so a middle-of-the-line red dot works well for my applications. Were a shooter to be engaging at longer ranges, I can see the advantages of having a scoped rifle. Incidentally, when engaging beyond 100yds, my go-to of choice is a .308 Remington 700.
I also noticed from your profile you're just a short drive down the road. Maybe one of these days when the 'Rona has been defeated, we can burn some gunpowder together and AFTER enjoy a cold adult beverage.
I also noticed from your profile you're just a short drive down the road. Maybe one of these days when the 'Rona has been defeated, we can burn some gunpowder together and AFTER enjoy a cold adult beverage.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
Inside of 100 yards, I'm all about the red dot with back up irons (I co-witness). I went with the 1-4x scope (which I had laying around already) on my 17.5" because I don't have a .30-06 or .308 at present, and wanted some capability to take down Bambi if feeding the kid came down to that. I've had success at the range in terms of accuracy, out to a few hundred yards... but "know" I'm on the weaker end of the power curve with 5.56. Luckily, when I built this one, I chose a 1:7 twist for higher velocity, so I think in a "gotta have it" scenario... I could make it happen inside of 500 yards. One day... when all this insanity is over, I'll get me something with "Ooomph!" LOL.
If you're ever down Harriman way, you can usually catch me my wife's art gallery (The Cornflower & Thistle) at 708 Queen Ave. downtown.
If you're ever down Harriman way, you can usually catch me my wife's art gallery (The Cornflower & Thistle) at 708 Queen Ave. downtown.
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So-background to the question: The Navy uses (used?) the Mk12 (see image) "Special Purpose Rifle". My understanding is that it was chambered in 5.56, but fired a 77 grain, "Open Tip Match" round to compensate for the NATO round's lack of ballistic performance at longer range. I see a lot of scopes on civilian ARs... heck, I've got one with a 1-4x scope mounted. I've heard some "wise men" saying it's "pointless" because the 5.56/.223 round "runs out of steam" at any range one would reasonably be using a scope... I kinda agree, but kinda disagree. I routinely shoot tight patterns on steel with my rig at intermediate ranges where the scope does seem to help with accuracy over the naked eye. What I don't know is if that "PONG!" I'm getting on the gong represents enough energy to drop a whitetail deer... or just inflate my ego. I'm not expecting to need to engage ISIS anytime soon... but thinking about the possibility of transitioning from intermediate to near ranges, I mounted 45 degree offset "iron sights" on mine. I've tried transitioning from a target at around 300 yards, scoped/on bipod... to offhand at fifty; seems to work alright. What are you guys' thoughts?
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
For any "CQB", i.e. "Self Defense" weapon... I'd agree. 'Red Dot' zeroed at 25/250 with back-up irons for daytime... IR laser paired with NVGs for night. Probably would go with a shorter barrel profile than the 17.5" too.
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Why- shot competition using M16 at 500-600 yards- damn scope would have been nice.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
A friend at Quantico qualified through matches as a leg shooter to USMC Team. M-14 Hi-Power towards Camp Perry. They practiced at 1000 and scored at 600. He shot 243 on KD, I'd fired 242 on pre-qual, and for record 236 best. M16A2. Better weapon than A1 in boot camp. Nails or rounds for dope changes on A1.
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application purposes... if you're trying to get that bullet out to a mile, yeah, pointless. It can get there, but damn, you
re shooting over a mile high anyway
re shooting over a mile high anyway
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Iron sights won't let you down in a survival situation. No batteries and not fragile. Personal preference. I've made shots at 80-100 yds with $100 Marlin .22 LR. (scope included), that I wouldn't have made with sights. Something about a reticle to help manage wobble area. Shooting stick is good too.
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