Posted on Sep 19, 2015
SrA Electrical Power Production Journeyman
829K
2.45K
1.16K
52
42
10
293b5ccc
So, this girl is 19, 4 months TIS and made Tech. Sgt (E-6) already. Typo? Misprint? Or horrible lapse in judgement?

Has anyone else heard about this?

http://www.usafband.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123449378
Posted in these groups: Star PromotionsD48af888 AirmenImages Military Career
Avatar feed
Responses: 414
SSG Small Group Leader
21
20
1
Edited >1 y ago
Wish I could delete so I can stop getting notifications. This is like a sociology project. Most people don't give in to reason and other view points, so why do I even bother?
(21)
Comment
(1)
SFC Army Musician
SFC (Join to see)
8 y
SrA (Join to see) - Many of the applicants for these premier bands have BAs in music if not Masters. So there is formal study that takes place, for years at a time. This E6 is a statistical anomoly, which is why it's so cool that she was able to land the gig.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Army Musician
SFC (Join to see)
8 y
SrA (Join to see) - To join a military band, ANY military band, you have to show you can play the instrument at a high enough level. In any otger enlisted MOS, they'll train you from the ground up. There is no need to know how to be a mechanic, how to speak a foreign language, how to fill out forms, how to run a supply room, or even how to shoot a rifle. But to join the band, you have to already possess a level of proficiency as a musician. The military will not train you from scratch. That's why, at least for the Army, musicians come in as E4s. Those that possess even greater proficiency on their instrument try out for the special bands. And if they make it, boom: E6.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Army Musician
SFC (Join to see)
8 y
SrA (Join to see) - So your husband sings and is very talented. Awesome! Wouldn't it make sense if he were serving in the military as a singer that his singing ability is what gets him promoted?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Army Musician
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
SrA (Join to see) Have you auditioned yet? How did it go?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt David Shepherd
17
17
0
Edited >1 y ago
I believe that I may be in the best position to address this question, for obvious reasons (see profile pic). The first thing to be aware of, is that there are two "tiers" of band in the US military. There are the Premier bands, the best known of which is the "President's Own" Marine Band in Washington DC. Each DoD service branch has at least one premier band in the DC area, as well as one at each of the three academies. These bands hire the best of the best - they are on a comparable level of professionalism with major symphony orchestras. Because of this, members are enlisted at the rank of E-6. Keep in mind that these are professionals who would typically command 6-figure salaries as civilians. It is important to note that these band members are strictly non-combatants. They do not deploy to combat zones. Ever.

There is also a second tier of bands, variously referred to as field or fleet bands depending on the branch. Those who enlist to serve in these bands do not start at E-6. Each branch handles their musicians a little differently. Fleet Marine musicians enlist at E-2, most Army musicians enlist as E-4 specialists, and with the Navy it varies between E-2 and E-3 depending on the skill and educational background of the sailor. I'm not sure about the Air Force. Once these musicians complete training and start duty in the bands, promotions are typically faster than most other MOS's, but not excessively so (though I suppose that's a matter of opinion). In the Marine Corps and Army, these musicians typically complete all the same routine training requirements as those in other MOS's (though they are definitely still PoGs). Many of them deploy, usually as base security elements for whatever command they report to. Navy and Air Force musicians are strictly non-combatants. Their only job is to make music, and they rarely go anywhere near a combat zone.

Ultimately, love it or hate it, the accelerated (or in the case of the premier bands, instantaneous) promotions for military musicians comes down to supply and demand. To get quality musicians, the services need to offer pay that is at least somewhat competitive, or else not enough people will be interested in the job. And as it stands, pay in the military is 100% associated with rank. If you want to change the system so that a E-1 with special skills can be paid a higher salary than, say, an E-1 in the infantry, so be it. But I guarantee you that doing so will simply open a different can of worms.
(17)
Comment
(0)
Maj Assistant Director Of Operations
Maj (Join to see)
>1 y
I hoped a band member would comment. A lot of people think the band members are a lesser military member. If they were such a huge waste I'm sure every service wouldn't have them. I think that the way it is handled is probably the best option as long as you all are expected to attend the same leadership courses as the rest of the MOS's in time. (I.e. PLDC, ALS, NCOA, etc)
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGM William Gabbard
SGM William Gabbard
>1 y
Oorah and hooah to your comments Sgt Shepherd. I am in my 29th year in a DC based band and have been uniquely privileged to represent the many thousands of brave ones who wear our uniform to the millions of Americans in audiences from coast to coast. Our mission is unique...but so critical to the greater success of our comrades who do come in harm's way. We tell their story. We secure the support of those who support them. Best wishes to you in your career.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO3 Boatswain's Mate
PO3 (Join to see)
>1 y
Maj (Join to see) - Do you really believe the military doesn't waste? Surely.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO1 Frank Haynes
PO1 Frank Haynes
>1 y
Well said Sgt!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Curtis Ellis
16
16
0
I definitely went into the wrong AFSC....
(16)
Comment
(0)
SrA Electrical Power Production Journeyman
SrA (Join to see)
>1 y
You and me both!
(1)
Reply
(0)
Capt Retired
Capt (Join to see)
>1 y
I would have been the fastest ever bust if I went to band.
(1)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Couch Potato
MCPO (Join to see)
>1 y
Curt, except, of course, for the fact that you would have probably NEVER seen E-7... If you look into retirement stats, musicians from all five services retire at lower rank/rate than any other career field, almost all at E-6.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
>1 y
MCPO (Join to see) - yes but they get that pay and benefits the whole time.
(3)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 Instructor
14
14
0
Not familiar with air force, but I went through navy basic training with two guys who were members of the Navy's bluejacket choir and they can in as E-6's/PO1. The military musical groups are basically morale and PR for the forces. They attract talent with the higher initial pay but it's not very easy to make rank in their community.
(14)
Comment
(0)
PO2 Loren Gilmore
PO2 Loren Gilmore
>1 y
Having been at sea in the Indian Ocean aboard the USS Independence when a group of our Navy band came out to entertain I really didn't care what the rank was. I just enjoyed the music and the time that we had them aboard. It removed some of the same old routine day in and day out and was well work it. DocGilly.
(8)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Joseph Gross
15
13
2
Nothing new and not unique to the air force. In the army we called it Stripes for Skills. Here's the deal though. She will likely never be promoted. Think of her as a warrant officer. She brings a special skill that most don't have.
(15)
Comment
(2)
Cpl Justin Watts
Cpl Justin Watts
>1 y
Never argue with an Air Force load master.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Infantryman
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
What is this stripes for skills nonsense?
If we have that, how come I'm still an E4, even though I have 5 years in, a master's degree in Emergency management, and civilian experience managing emergency operations and control centers... only way to get promoted in the national guard is for someone above you to die or retire... stripes for skills actually just let's new enlisted bump from e1-e2 or E3 before they go to basic training if they can pass a pt test, amd learn some basic knowledge...
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
>1 y
SPC (Join to see) - The Stripes for Skills that I'm referring to did exist for all components and it was for skills, not acquired knowledge such as an advanced degree. However at least on the AC side, you can enlist at a higher pay grade by virtue of having some college. This is well beyond getting that bump to E-2 or E-3. I enlisted as an E-2 because I convinced a female friend to join the Army with me. My son enlisted as an E-3 because he had four years of JROTC. That is far different from a native speaker in a high demand language enlisting and bringing in a skill the Army can't find just anywhere.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Bradley Romesberg
SPC Bradley Romesberg
>1 y
SPC (Join to see) - I'm with you on that.. I had two mos's pldc combat time and eight years in the reserves and never made e-5 and did extra time training
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Vice President
11
11
0
The Navy has many "Direct procurement" programs where someone’s rank is determined by numerous factors. We once had a Senior Chief that was a Police Chief of a small town and the Navy needed more senior Master At Arms. Bottom line it is a system, it was followed and good on her for choosing service to country over the debortuary of Hollywood. I actually look forward to hearing that beautiful voice at events over the years to come. Again congratulations to her and her family. I am absolutely sure her dad is the proudest father on the planet today, I know I would be.
(11)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Maj Walter Kilar
10
10
0
Although I am not a fan of ceremonial units and their automatic promotion process, I am okay with it because it does not affect me. I would imagine that if a premier band member were to cross train into the regular Air Force, the member would be demoted and would be treated like a regular member. If it does bother you, then go apply to a premiere band. If you have ever been harassed by a premiere band member on the flight line, in your office, or at a deployed location, you can easily find the member's supervisor and get the problem fixed--these members are held to high standards due to their visibility. I doubt anyone really has any problem with these folks, so leave them to their little world with higher rank and glittery uniforms. It does not affect anyone else and their promotions.
(10)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Global Operations Duty Officer (Do)
10
10
0
When I went through basic I was in the band flight and knew to in my flight going into the AF Band one got TSgt the other MSgt. It is based on what band they made through tryouts. The way it was explained to me is that most Airman that make those bands likely had some college if not a bachelors in music. It is a tool to entice skilled musicians to enlist to play for the AF Band, because they would likely make that much or more in an equivalent civilian orchestra/band.
(10)
Comment
(0)
PO2 Jeffery Reiser
PO2 Jeffery Reiser
>1 y
Interesting
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt (Other / Not listed)
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
well maybe he was lying, but I know for a fact it doesn't work like that.
(0)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Global Operations Duty Officer (Do)
TSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SSgt (Join to see) - That may be the case, but I can't speak to the deals that may or may not have been available to get someone to enlist to join the band 12 years ago.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt (Other / Not listed)
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
It's never worked that way. The highest anyone comes out of bmt for the band is E-6.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PFC Michael Crosswhite
9
9
0
If it were an MOS that required front line duty, she wouldn't be ready for that rank, but she is good at what she does in her MOS and that's where promotion comes into play for her I'm sure. The fact that she turned down the opportunity of American Idol to serve says a lot about her character and on that note, I have nothing negative to say at all. I say congratulations and job well done.
(9)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Operations Intelligence
8
8
0
I read the AFI and disagree with it. They should not be promoted automatically to E-6 for being in the "AF Premier Band". However, I could see them being promoted to E-4 and perhaps some sort of bonus to keep them. Automatically promoting them like that, to me, degrades the rank. I have seen many Airman who have great talent in their jobs and work just as hard. Yet, they are not automatically promoted like that. I just think that there is a better way of doing it.
(8)
Comment
(0)
SFC Recruiter
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
But paying them as an E6 may be cheaper in the long run. Do I feel less proud of the rank I earned because she joined the military and pinned E6 after basic? No. Not at all. Every branch has some program out there that does the same thing.

She probably will remain stagnant for quite some time.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGM William Gabbard
SGM William Gabbard
>1 y
The initial promotion to E6 does come quickly, but it will be a while before she sees 7. I was 26 (two music degrees under my belt) when I came in, 33 when I made E7. If I had been in what we in the Army call a "line band," my track would have been about the same. I was recently promoted to E9...at 27 years TIS.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close