Posted on Jul 11, 2023
Is it possible to transfer from Army Reserve to Navy Active Duty as an O5?
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I have a LTC friend / mentor who has been trying to find ways to get back to being a full-time military Chaplain for years. Recently, I found that the Navy allows Chaplains up to age 58. He is 48. He is currently in the Army Reserve and is technically LTC (P).
I spoke to a Navy Officer Recruiter and they mentioned that they have 5 slots each year for O5’s. So far my understanding, based off of the recruiter and their supervisor is that all that reigns true.
However, my friend / mentor got an email from his endorser saying that “the Navy's Chaplain who handles the in-take of 2088s/Endorsement on behalf of the Navy Chief of Chaplains. He clearly told me there is no way for you to conduct an inter service transfer and enter above an O3. They would not consider any chaplain from another Service who is above an O3. They do not do this because of the necessary time in grade for the Navy to train its chaplains.”
If anyone has guidance on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
I spoke to a Navy Officer Recruiter and they mentioned that they have 5 slots each year for O5’s. So far my understanding, based off of the recruiter and their supervisor is that all that reigns true.
However, my friend / mentor got an email from his endorser saying that “the Navy's Chaplain who handles the in-take of 2088s/Endorsement on behalf of the Navy Chief of Chaplains. He clearly told me there is no way for you to conduct an inter service transfer and enter above an O3. They would not consider any chaplain from another Service who is above an O3. They do not do this because of the necessary time in grade for the Navy to train its chaplains.”
If anyone has guidance on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Chaplain
Inter-Service
LTC
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
1LT (Join to see) - I made this a separate post as it addresses the other side of the question which is advice if he wants to get back to being a full-time military Chaplain, but this is on the Army side.
The first thing he should do is to check the "jobs boards" to see if there are any temporary requirements that they need a full-time chaplain of his rank for (either as an O5 or an O6 - a bit more about the O6 in a bit). He can access Tour of Duty by visiting the MOBCOP page* of the G-3/5/7 (cac-enabled and I believe you have to be on a .mil network to access).
I'm not sure of it's operating status right now as MOBCOP was VERY finicky last I was working with it a few years ago, but there was a group on milSuite* I came across that replicated most (all?) of the Worldwide Individual Augmentation System (WIAS) taskings.
Second is for him to contact the Chief of Chaplains office and let them know about him and his desires. It's very possible that they might have other requirements that never went to an official WIAS tasking. Likely that they have something? No. But as Mr. Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Third, your friend needs to have a tough conversation with himself WHY he wants to be a full-time military Chaplain. Does he want to be full-time so he can minister to military as he feels a calling to do that? Would he perfectly fine in doing that if he wasn't an active duty officer?
The reason I ask is there are also many 'civilian chaplain' opportunities that he could explore. Many installations hire auxiliary chaplains when they have a shortage of a certain faith there is a demand for (I've only met Catholic priest auxiliaries, but they would be for all faiths). Additionally, there are opportunities as a full-time GS employee working with servicemembers at the VA and other organizations. Direct your friend to the Archdiocese for the Military Services webpage* for more info as well as links to see current job openings or possible contracts as an auxiliary.
Finally, back to the "a bit more about the O6 in a bit". You said your friend was technically a O5(P) which to me means he was DA select by the O6 board but hasn't be put into an O6 position so he could be promoted in the USAR. If he were to transfer to the IRR, once he hits his maximum time in grade (TIG) requirements to be an O6 (should be 5 years, but there is always the 'Army could change based on needs' for O6s), he'll pin on. However, he'll go from a "drilling O5" to an "out of work O6". I just mention this as if there are O6 opportunities in the options above and he's eligible (only factor to keep in mind is the processing time at HRC to transfer him to the IRR).
--------------------------------------------
* https://mobcop.aoc.army.pentagon.mil/
* http://www.milsuite.mil/book/groups/wias-worldwide-individual-augmentation-system
* https://www.milarch.org/job-openings/priest-opportunities/
The first thing he should do is to check the "jobs boards" to see if there are any temporary requirements that they need a full-time chaplain of his rank for (either as an O5 or an O6 - a bit more about the O6 in a bit). He can access Tour of Duty by visiting the MOBCOP page* of the G-3/5/7 (cac-enabled and I believe you have to be on a .mil network to access).
I'm not sure of it's operating status right now as MOBCOP was VERY finicky last I was working with it a few years ago, but there was a group on milSuite* I came across that replicated most (all?) of the Worldwide Individual Augmentation System (WIAS) taskings.
Second is for him to contact the Chief of Chaplains office and let them know about him and his desires. It's very possible that they might have other requirements that never went to an official WIAS tasking. Likely that they have something? No. But as Mr. Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Third, your friend needs to have a tough conversation with himself WHY he wants to be a full-time military Chaplain. Does he want to be full-time so he can minister to military as he feels a calling to do that? Would he perfectly fine in doing that if he wasn't an active duty officer?
The reason I ask is there are also many 'civilian chaplain' opportunities that he could explore. Many installations hire auxiliary chaplains when they have a shortage of a certain faith there is a demand for (I've only met Catholic priest auxiliaries, but they would be for all faiths). Additionally, there are opportunities as a full-time GS employee working with servicemembers at the VA and other organizations. Direct your friend to the Archdiocese for the Military Services webpage* for more info as well as links to see current job openings or possible contracts as an auxiliary.
Finally, back to the "a bit more about the O6 in a bit". You said your friend was technically a O5(P) which to me means he was DA select by the O6 board but hasn't be put into an O6 position so he could be promoted in the USAR. If he were to transfer to the IRR, once he hits his maximum time in grade (TIG) requirements to be an O6 (should be 5 years, but there is always the 'Army could change based on needs' for O6s), he'll pin on. However, he'll go from a "drilling O5" to an "out of work O6". I just mention this as if there are O6 opportunities in the options above and he's eligible (only factor to keep in mind is the processing time at HRC to transfer him to the IRR).
--------------------------------------------
* https://mobcop.aoc.army.pentagon.mil/
* http://www.milsuite.mil/book/groups/wias-worldwide-individual-augmentation-system
* https://www.milarch.org/job-openings/priest-opportunities/
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POSSIBLE to go from a USAR O5 to a USN O5? Sure.
LIKELY? Nope.
As a Chaplain? He has his answer.
Interservice transfer of senior individuals is always problematic as the services are different in what is required of individuals at each rank. While at the low ranks it very much is like having round pegs of different color but of relatively same diameter and size. You can take a green peg and put it in the blue hole pretty easily. As you go in in grade, those pegs and holes starts to take on a different shape and a lot more 'pounding' will be needed to put a different peg in.
There are a lot of different things that would be affecting your friend. The first is that IF by some stretch he were to make it, he would not be an O5(P). He's an O5.
Second, IF he were to be accepted, the odds are extremely slim that he would be transferred in permanent grade as an O5. All services taking interservice transfers go through a grade review to determine what permanent grade the individual will hold based on their training, skills, and experience (that round peg thing again). The Navy will use whatever the career development guidelines* they have for Navy officers and apply them to your friend. IF accepted, then he's very likely lose a grade or two.
Finally, just like the Army, when it comes to specialty branches (like Chaplain), there are another set of rules* that have to be followed in addition to those of 'line officers' - from the letter it sounds like the Navy's Chief of Chaplains office has spoken.
Continuing with the unlikely (your friend tells the Navy that he'll accept a transfer in the permanent grade of O3 if he can go on Active Duty as a Navy Chaplain), then he'll probably have a number of additional obstacles that he would have to overcome. Just to understand the Navy culture will probably be a steep learning curve for years to learn things that he would have picked up as a junior officer.
While it might seem that a Chaplain in the Army and a Chaplain in the Navy would be an easy swap, think of it more like a Catholic priest and a Baptist minister swapping (don't look too close at the example as it will quickly fall apart .. JUST to make a point). They both have many of the same core functions when it comes to facilitation, caring, and advisement, but HOW they go about doing that and what is needed to understand the personal environment those they counsel operate in will be vastly different.
----------------------------------------
* https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Reference/MILPERSMAN/1000/1300Assignment/1300-082.pdf
* https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/CHIEF%20OF%20CHAPLAINS%20INSTRUCTIONS/5351.1.pdf
LIKELY? Nope.
As a Chaplain? He has his answer.
Interservice transfer of senior individuals is always problematic as the services are different in what is required of individuals at each rank. While at the low ranks it very much is like having round pegs of different color but of relatively same diameter and size. You can take a green peg and put it in the blue hole pretty easily. As you go in in grade, those pegs and holes starts to take on a different shape and a lot more 'pounding' will be needed to put a different peg in.
There are a lot of different things that would be affecting your friend. The first is that IF by some stretch he were to make it, he would not be an O5(P). He's an O5.
Second, IF he were to be accepted, the odds are extremely slim that he would be transferred in permanent grade as an O5. All services taking interservice transfers go through a grade review to determine what permanent grade the individual will hold based on their training, skills, and experience (that round peg thing again). The Navy will use whatever the career development guidelines* they have for Navy officers and apply them to your friend. IF accepted, then he's very likely lose a grade or two.
Finally, just like the Army, when it comes to specialty branches (like Chaplain), there are another set of rules* that have to be followed in addition to those of 'line officers' - from the letter it sounds like the Navy's Chief of Chaplains office has spoken.
Continuing with the unlikely (your friend tells the Navy that he'll accept a transfer in the permanent grade of O3 if he can go on Active Duty as a Navy Chaplain), then he'll probably have a number of additional obstacles that he would have to overcome. Just to understand the Navy culture will probably be a steep learning curve for years to learn things that he would have picked up as a junior officer.
While it might seem that a Chaplain in the Army and a Chaplain in the Navy would be an easy swap, think of it more like a Catholic priest and a Baptist minister swapping (don't look too close at the example as it will quickly fall apart .. JUST to make a point). They both have many of the same core functions when it comes to facilitation, caring, and advisement, but HOW they go about doing that and what is needed to understand the personal environment those they counsel operate in will be vastly different.
----------------------------------------
* https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Reference/MILPERSMAN/1000/1300Assignment/1300-082.pdf
* https://www.secnav.navy.mil/doni/CHIEF%20OF%20CHAPLAINS%20INSTRUCTIONS/5351.1.pdf
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1LT (Join to see)
Thank you for both of your replies sir. I followed up with the recruiter at the Chaplain recruiter about the availability and told him about what the email had shared, the response was more or less, “no, that’s not what happens. I don’t know who told him that and why.” The unlikely nature of this whole scenario is definitely understood. I’ve been helping him find information on transferring with the understanding that this is a shot in the dark. There’s definitely a lot of obstacles and things to navigate while attempting this, and some of what you mentioned has been brought up as well. Should any of this work and go through, I’ll be certain to post on here so it is archived in Rally Point on how to do so. Thank you for your guidance sir.
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