Posted on Feb 22, 2018
LCpl Timothy McCain
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After the shooting in Florida many people began to say arm the teachers. But they over look that a police officer was there. As a Marine I understand how difficult it is to close on and take an active shooter even with the best training and equipment. During the Dallas shooting 11 police officers was injured and another 6 was killed. Out of all the return fire none actually hit the suspect. Infact the suspect was killed by a remote control robot carrying an explosive. The reason why the suspect wasn't killed by a well aimed handgun shot is because of what we call the fog of war. When the shooting starts panic and confusion set in and the way we deal with it in the military is continually to train for those situations week in and week out. But without a third of the training people are expecting teachers to be able to identify the location of the shooter, know the movement of other armed teachers, know the movement of the innocent students and staff, close on the shooter and fire a well aimed shot without putting any students in further danger. Is that realistic?
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PO1 J R Foster
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I think that having teachers that are willing to be armed AND go through at least some rudimentary training, would be a deterrent. Like others who have posted here, I think that the would be shooter not knowing where and when he might encounter armed resistance, would give him pause. I don’t think there is one perfect answer to this question, or to the dilemma of a nut-case with a gun, but there are lots of little things that could be done to help prevent more of these horrible incidents from happening. I’ll say one thing, this retiree would be happy to volunteer one day a week in a local school, to help keep it safe. I work four days one work week and three the next (12 hour days), so I could spare a day. Make teams of two to roam the halls. Control the access to the campus, much like the gates of a military base are controlled. Stopping or at least slowing down a shooter before they even get in a building would provide a buffer allowing the building to lock down.
These are sad times and I don’t believe there is one big answer for any of this, but I do believe that there are a lot of little things that can be done to mitigate the danger of this happening in our neighborhood schools.
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SPC Ken Sawyer
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Why is it we say we entrust our children to the school but then are afraid of actually doing what’s needed. A teacher that’s properly trained is less effective than a cop that’s trained how so? If a trained person wearing a badge is good how is one without a banged bad? Are we to believe that only police can protect us? You do know that the USSC has ruled that the police do not have a duty to protect us right? The police are great at investigating the crime but not so great at stopping a crime unless they happen to be on the scene at the time the crime is committed.
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SFC Kenneth Baker
SFC Kenneth Baker
>1 y
Many teachers barely make enough to get by, and still have to buy school supplies for their students out of their own pockets. What you're implying is that you want them to take time out to get training equivalent to that of a police officer. You can say pay them more, but where's that money going to come from. Schools are struggling to keep enough teachers as it is, much less give them extra pay for being combat proficient and expecting them to shoot a teenager who probably was or is a student at that very school. I don't necessarily disagree with you. Having been a teacher, I'm just trying to be realistic.
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SPC Ken Sawyer
SPC Ken Sawyer
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Play no one is forcing any of them into do this. I knew many teachers that own guns. Most teachers also take a second job for the time school is on vacation. So I really don’t buy the poor teacher bit. In most cases they are making 30k on up. Not all but most well there are a lot of blue color people making less that can afford a hand gun. And the teachers have the option to receive all of their pay In the 180 day school year period or have the money stretched out over the whole year so they are not without a pay check. Then add what they make during the summer time when school is out and your over 40k a year. They can either learn to defend themselves or be a bullet sponge it’s their choice
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Jerry Rivas
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Yes....Yes it is.
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TSgt Stephen Potter
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The question is why do teaches need to carry a gun? I feel that level headed teachers could and can get the job done IF properly trained. I personally know several teachers who have serviced. The 98 percent of those other teachers, I would not want them carrying a water gun!!! Plus, I have personally seen a teacher tried to pick an argument with a parent over the use of a bathroom, while was at school watch his daughter's volleyball practice. Teachers like this DO NOT need that power.
Because undisciplined kids will entice teacher draw on them or just plain take the gun away from the teacher and God forbid use it on the teacher and students.
It all starts at HOME. I send my kids to school fed, rested, well mannered and ready to learn. Trust me, I am not saying I'm perfect. They know that I expect them to BEHAVE. There are parents out there that do not believe its their responsibility to care, discipline and provide for there kids. I believe in helping out in the community and assisting the people in need. We live in a world that blames everybody else and it's not my fault, their whole philosophy is "what are you going to do about it or what can you do for me?" Schools are no longer Schools, they are day cares. Too many parents want the school teacher to discipline, teach their kids the right way. It longer about education.
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SPC Mitch Saret
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I believe it can be done, but precautions have to be taken. First, not every teacher needs to be armed. That would eliminate the need for being on the lookout for multiple friendlies. One per wing or hallway would be enough. Second, training has to occur, consistent, effective training. Third, the armed teachers have to be volunteers. This subject came up at a conference of teachers I was attending. Every single teacher was willing to protect their students. About a third were willing to carry. Being former military, I was one of the willing. There were several who also were, and many who were not. It's not a simple solution.
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PO3 John Wagner
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Exactly what does the shooters weapon of choice make to the ability of a teacher or any individual lawfully authorized to carry a weapon in a school as part of its defense make?
What difference? Why do you even use the term AR15? As if this is some magic button that a second amendment hater would use with talismanic reverence?
OH WAIT! It is a gun that an idiot who wouldn't know one end from another would mention ... in other words liberal sheep who think that "Can't we just all get along?" is profound.
I am surprised that a marine would have such an obviously flawed premise in a post.
Liberals talking guns reminds me of high school boys talking about the merits of a Ferrari as opposed to a Lamborghini.... in other words talking shit about subjects they have zero HANDS ON experience with.. and of course acting as if they believed each other because to point out their ignorance would expose the whole bunch...
I think it's an apt analogy for the loudest voices in the antigun movement, always has been always will be.
As an aside... when the shooter a few years ago at a Virginia? College rebaked total mayhem with a couple of blocks with high capacity magazines I don't recall hearing any general hue and cry for the banning of Glocks with high capacity magazines. (Gee. I wonder why?)
After a fashion handguns of that sort are far far deadlier than a point 223 AR.
A 9mm slug is going to do one hell of a lot more damage on the way through than that rifle bullet..
My opinion anyway.
Might as well ask a jackass question which makes just as much sense.
"Is it realistic to think a teach with a handgun could defend against an "active shooter" with a handgun?"
( is there another kind of shooter besides active?). A passive shooter?
SSgt Christopher Brose
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SSgt Christopher Brose
SSgt Christopher Brose
>1 y
Now now, The LCpl asked a perfectly legitimate question, and it was a fantastic conversation starter, judging by the number of responses. The AR-15 aspect is relevant because it was the weapon used in the FL shooting... and because that Hogg kid made such an issue of it, defending (un-freaking-believably!) the deputy that did NOT go running into the building.

While I mostly share your view of liberals, I don't believe the LCPL was pushing a liberal agenda. He asked a question and gave a short but reasoned presentation.

I have said this many times elsewhere, a pistol can kill you just as dead as a rifle. It is true that a pistol mostly suffers in a power comparison to a rifle, but that is only one factor among many. It's hard to concealed-carry a rifle, for example. Heck, it's harder to carry a rifle than a pistol, period. A well-aimed shot with a pistol is more effective than a wild shot with a rifle. And a pistol doesn't have to give up THAT much power to a rifle, depending on the pistol.

People tend to compare an AR-15 with a 9mm, just because both are so ubiquitous. But given that role, I wouldn't carry a 9mm. I'd carry a 10mm if semi-auto, and a .357 (at a minimum) if revolver. Both of those pack considerable stopping power, and a center-mass shot with either one will ruin a person's entire day.
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PO3 John Wagner
PO3 John Wagner
>1 y
SSgt Christopher Brose - Agreed, the LCpl was unduly maligned by my response. At this much later date I was struck by the AR15 comment more forcefully.
For reasons of nausea with liberal yammering on the subject.
(I would rather listen to a pack of barking dogs than liberals discussing guns)
I just think that a powerful handgun is a deadlier weapon of attack in a soft target rich environment... a crappy but accurate way of describing a school.
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SN Jay Perry
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I am a child of the 60's/70's (born 63 in school till 81), most teachers in those days (especially male (a lot of whom were vets)) really could have frozen most school shooters in their tracks and just TOLD them to surrender the weapon(s). Can you imagine that grandmotherly teacher with the NORMAL respect given a teacher (back then) even putting up with someone with a weapon in her classroom/school? I am now the father of a teenager and it blows teachers minds (even teachers who are friends/neighbors/church members) when even though I have known them for years I refuse to refer to them by their first names when in their classroom/school situation. Teachers have EARNED that respect when I was a kid and CONTROLLED that school. That lack of respect is one of the reasons school shooters are doing this, less respect of the teachers, more "be their friends," teaching methods and this is coming back to haunt them. An extreme example would the death scene of Sgt. Hartman in "Full Metal Jacket," when he entered that head and started screaming that sent chills down my spine (I who had done USN boot-camp in the days of the 35 gallon flying shit-can (propelled by the Company Commander's well shined boot toe)) I know I sat a little taller and was definitely ready to receive whatever information R. Lee was putting out right there, but then I was not a psychotic individual (who had not been monitored).
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LTC John Bush
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The armed teacher is a last ditch move that is simply better than nothing. We need a layered defense of our schools just like we have for our President. Passive measures such as screenings, limited entry points, good communications and lockdown procedures. Find and flag potential shooters, treat them, isolate them and limit their access to all sorts of weapons of all types. An armed person(s) is the last ditch effort after all else has failed. Preferably this person will be an extensively trained professional but if we can not afford it a good guy with a gun may be the best we can do. No matter how hard you train how thing will go the first time under fire is unknown but good training definitely increases the odds things will go in our favor.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
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The last time the country as a whole had so many mass shootings was in the 10 years prior to the American Civil War. The lead cause was the issues that led to the Civil War.
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SSgt Russell Stevens
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I think it's going to come down to training and experience. While I'm certain there are teachers who in fact are military veterans, it isn't the majority of teachers. I'm thinking most do not have the training or the experience necessary to use a handgun without inadvertently hitting the wrong target.
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