Posted on May 12, 2016
SSG Detailed Recruiter
34.3K
194
118
10
10
0
4f0c38b3
Look at the role models each Branch Loves, Marines: in some pictures had his hands in his pockets, and no haircut, Chesty Puller, and General Patton, had his hands in his pockets and no haircut as well, SF wears beards over Seas and have their hands in their pockets. Does it really detract from performance? Is it really a Disipline problem? Could it increase unit Morale?
Avatar feed
Responses: 57
SGM Frederic Smith
1
1
0
NO! But, what is done in a Combat environment is NOT the same as in Garrison! IF that is the question being asked in Garrison, then we are in a more serious downward trend as first believed.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT(P) Operations Nco
1
1
0
I don't think it's right for people to attack you for asking this question. Isn't that what Rally Point is for? For brothers and sisters in arms to come together and comment on different ideas. It's crazy, some are calling your professionalism into question for asking a question.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SSG Detailed Recruiter
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Lol thanks Bro, but the truth is rally point is based off of points and badges, posting things like this get those old crusty garrison leaders fired up and the points roll in
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSG Detailed Recruiter
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
I dont believe in beards, no haircuts, and hands in pockets, but theirs no quicker way to attract attention lol so I couldnt resist watching leaders heads implode
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT(P) Operations Nco
SGT(P) (Join to see)
>1 y
Lol I understand that. My take on it is if it's cold a Soldier shouldn't have to be afraid to use his pockets. Beards are for hipsters and lumberjacks. The one thing that does annoy me of those 3 things is the
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGT(P) Operations Nco
SGT(P) (Join to see)
>1 y
Haircut standard. I recently had an experience where my hair had been cut within 6 days and I was made to go get another haircut because I had peach fuzz starting to regrow on my neck.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MAJ Computer Network Defense Manger
1
1
0
Yes it is necessary. These are not things the military does to instill discipline. Discipline is the by-product of enforcement. These things create and image. An image of tradition and correctness. This is necessary to preserve what the image of a Soldier should be. SF maintains relaxed grooming standards to achieve cultural immersion.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Jamie Grippin
1
1
0
You're in the military, if you want to walk around looking unkept and with your hands in your pocket go be a civilian. This ranks up there with those two individuals who want to be in the US military and maintain a beard and wear turban. Just find another profession and leave this profession to the professionals.
(1)
Comment
(0)
CPT Infantry Officer
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
Shikhs wore turbans in the 1970's that matched the green fatigues.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Marco McDowell
1
1
0
Impossible to compare individuals from times past to now. So if a guy shows up with a powdered wig and saber because George Washington did it, do we say aye? I can't speak on SF because it's an operational thing (although a guy with flowing golden tresses and the beard of Thor doesn't blend in well with the locals), SF does what SF does, a haircut and no hands in the pockets are minor disciplines that lead to larger things. Not sure why you can't do something as simple as keeping your hair in regs or keeping your hands out of your pockets or how it drives morale down... The beards are already here. Seems like everyone has a shaving waiver and I mean everybody now or dudes just refuse to shave and no one questions. I see 6-7 inches of hair greased back and over, afros, goatees (I assure you shaving chits don't say shave your mug smooth except for a blocked of patch on your chin). I watched a guy cut across the grass to the barracks with one hand in and the other helping him gulp down a drink. I see this across the board thanks to working on a joint service installation. There's nothing demoralizing about being the conservative and disciplined portion of society. If guys want hair, beards and built in hand warmers, become a civilian. You can have all of that then.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Field Radio Operator
Sgt (Join to see)
>1 y
TSgt Marco McDowell I love your response!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC John Decker
1
1
0
In my day, the hair length and facial hair (or lack thereof), had more to do with the gas mask fitting and sealing properly than anything else. And having your hands in your pockets had to do, I think, with being able to grab a weapon that much faster. And, again, in my opinion, a person in uniform, with hands in pockets, just looks lazy. That being said, history tells us that some of the rules are enforced, or not, differently in a combat environment.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Field Radio Operator
Sgt (Join to see)
>1 y
In a combat environment the rules were different. There were no haircuts, and we even had trouble getting jungle utilities when ours were in tatters. Once we got back to the battalion rear, we were expected to clean up and conform.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Military Police
1
1
0
Sure, why not. Regs are not enforced anyway. Let's do what we want.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SGM Frederic Smith
SGM Frederic Smith
>1 y
I like your comment, because it hits it on the head "squarely"! Regs, for the most part, "are not enforced"! And you know where that responsibility lies? Not the E-9 "Uniform Nazi" that everyone scurries and hides from when they see him or her coming. NO, it rests with the lack of delegation of NCO duties, authority and responsibilities from the Senior NCOs that have not held their Junior NCOs to task. If we can't find people with the "back-bone" to "take" the Duties, Authority and Responsibilities of an NCO or wasn't "Mentored" by someone that "cares" then; as time is proving and has in most cases shown, we are losing "Disciple, Character, Military Bearing and Quality NCO Leadership" in our Army.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SrA Edward Vong
1
1
0
Beards and a longer length of hair should be allowed as long as it remains somewhat conservative and well groomed. I never felt that hands in pockets was a big deal.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Sales & Proposals Manager Gas Turbine Products
1
1
0
I think the NCO community "owns" this topic...but here's my take, for what its worth.

These heroes were a different breed. Puller's resume reads like a John Wayne flick-A guy like that is once in a century, maybe twice if we're lucky. The motivation and loyalty they transmit far outweighs their apparent lack of "bearing", and everyone knows you don't "impersonate" that kind of gravitas.

Then there's the SF folks. I recall once that we had a bunch of Group Three people show up, dirty, bearded, and looking like a heavily armed ZZ Top tribute band. An hour later, they came out of the hooches in PRISTINE and perfect ACUs, with reg cuts.

For the rest of we "mere mortals", a couple weeks out in the bush, and a lot of things naturally go by the board...but on a FOB, in garrison, or stateside, there's just no good reason to do away with good order and discipline.
(1)
Comment
(0)
PO3 Chris Scheide
PO3 Chris Scheide
>1 y
I say we go back to the swashbuckler style you have in your avatar!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Strategic Sealift Officer
1
1
0
Haircuts no. Back to beards and hands in pockets, Yes.

Check out the Task and Purpose article on the Marines stance on no hands on the pockets. In summary, lack of understanding grammar aka they can't read.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close