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Is the airborne concept outdated? In almost 14 years of war has there been any parachute deployments of troops into a combat zone?
Tactics
Parachuting
Paratrooper
Airborne School
XVIII ABN Corps
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 186
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The answer to this question can be answered throughout history. It was once stated that after WW2 and after WW1, the need for special operations combat teams, and sniper training wasn't necessary. By the time we reached Vietnam, through the events of Korea and the beginning of the cold war, JFK and LBJ saw the need, and use for Special Operations. This was the advent of SF, SEAL's and other operations groups. The Tehran hostage crisis in the late 70's early 80's showed us the need for a Special Ops Aviation unit, and 160th was born. Prior to these units being created people saw no need for the existence of these units. It's the same for Airborne. Right now, people do not see the need for units such as this, but, in future battle fields the need for these war fighters is there, just as there still remains a need for Marines. When was the last time the Marines waged a amphibious assault? It's been a long while, but, there is still a need to have them around. It's the same with the Airborne, it's more than just jumping out of an airplane, it's a light fighter mindset. Just the same being a Marine is more than just amphibious assaults, it's the mindset
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SPC Kelly Grindstaff
Correct Light Infantry getting to the target either on foot, Airborne or Amphibious is a mind set you will be going with the tools on your back anything else you improvise..
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Yes, it is absolutely outdated above the squad level. I challenge anyone to cite a *combat relevant* drop that exceeded that size after Korea.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
AFAIK, we are no trying to take ground in the Stan. The main mission of the airborne is to support offensive operations by dropping in the rear and holding bridges, road junctions and whatever else would hinder the enemy from reinforcing his FL units. The Abn forces hold until the ground troops get to them. No need for that when you aren't taking ground. There was a combat jump into War Zone D, I think, maybe C, when I was in RVN by the 173rd Abn Bde, so the could get their mustard. The 25th Inf Div outta Chu Chi secured the drop zone for them. Press was there, many pictures and stories written about it. Mustard on the wings, everybody happy, but not a real advancement of the cause.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
Must object for my late Uncle Bill, Sergeant, 26th US Cavalry (PS). Last mounted Cavalry charge was in January of 1942. A platoon was screening and came upon this river crossing with a Jap Bn trying to cross. The LT did not know what to do, but said he learned if in doubt charge. So it went draw pistols, forward at a trot, skipped over canter, at the gallop charge. Scared those Japs and they fell back through the vill and
they held the crossing the rest of the day. Not long after they butchered their horses for food and became infantry. There will never be another US Cavalry charge unless the platoon of the 1st Cav Division does it. AFAIK, they are the last horse mounted
Cavalry the US Army has. The SF guys spoken of would most likely be Dragoons, not Cavalry.
they held the crossing the rest of the day. Not long after they butchered their horses for food and became infantry. There will never be another US Cavalry charge unless the platoon of the 1st Cav Division does it. AFAIK, they are the last horse mounted
Cavalry the US Army has. The SF guys spoken of would most likely be Dragoons, not Cavalry.
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SSG Robert Webster
MAJ Ronnie Reams - Interesting, but the Dragoons were mounted Infantry and they morphed into the Cavalry that we all know and love. But when you look at it in that light and look at mounted/mechanized Infantry as part of the Combined Arms Team, in a Mechanized Division or more specifically in an Armor or Cavalry Division, do they not use some of the same tactics when mounted?
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
Probably, but I only know from what Bill told me about the"modern" Cavalry, they played a lot of polo and "Skinny" Wainwright was one of the umpires, and a an old trooper who was in his late 90s when I knew him in the early 1950s who was in the 5th and rode with McKenzie when he ran the Apache down using their own tactics against them. He told me all the stuff I saw on TV and movies was not right! AFAIK, the only mounted Cavalry left today is a platoon at Fort Hood. I was saying that the SF did not make a "Cavalry charge", that last distinction belongs to the 26th Cav (PS). So I liken the SF to Dragoons and not cavalry.
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I've read many of the posts both for and against, and while I'm a Dirty Nasty Stinkin Leg (with working knees), I think the Airborne while a tried and true entity is still relevant as a force multiplier. If we are going to say that they aren't needed, I'd propose doing away with Force Recon, ALL of the SEALS (and all book and movie deals), and any SOF group that isn't SF (I think UDT is needed but is it used anymore, and PJ's as the exception). All of them share many of the same skillsets. Now I know how absurd that sounds and thank goodness it won't happen. Like many have also said the moment we take a tool out of the box, we need it and pay 10x what it's worth to get it again. Leave it be, and let those that choose to fall/jump out of a piece of equipment made by the lowest bidder (helo/plane) carry on. IF we were to downsize them, at least allow a BDE or two to maintain proficiency in ABN with the ability to train others in a needed situation. Much love to my Airborne brothers and sisters regardless of service, but lets face it, LEGS lead the way. You jump, I hump, but we still fight the same battle in the same war side by side.
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I think the whole concept should be looked at, why does it take three weeks to train to jump out of a plane when it takes 10 days to rappel out of a helicopter? How is it a lot of our NATO allies can do jump school in days instead of weeks? How many five jump chumps are walking around who will never serve in an airborne unit? The wings have become a merit badge. If there were no wings, red beret, and jump boots in Class A's would people sign up as much as they do? I think their would be a drop off.
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Against a modern enemy, mass drop craft are not going to survive to get anywhere near the battle. Against an enemy where we have air superiority, the need is very limited. Special insertions like those used by the Selous Scouts and Rhodesian SAS in the Bush War, certainly. Mass elements? It's never going to happen again.
And the last relevant mass drop was long before Iraq.
The Iraq drop was into a secured location, as reinforcement for a feint to help pin Iraqi forces in place. Plenty of other options would have been as or more effective, including simply bombing them, or laying air-dropped mines.
"The operation was classified as a combat jump by the Army, although the landing zone was secured by Kurdish and American forces.[4]"
In Vietnam, the Junction City drop was effective, sort of, with heavy casualties, also with significant air superiority. They were unquestionably brave and motivated. Doable against a third world enemy, but had the politics allowed, would have probably been unnecessary. And I don't think there's much hope for future nancified governments to authorize even that force.
Operation Tomahawk in Korea might have been significant, except the enemy had already retreated.
It's certainly a valid tool for specific circumstances, but as a strategic element, their only time was in WWII, where they served with distinction.
And the last relevant mass drop was long before Iraq.
The Iraq drop was into a secured location, as reinforcement for a feint to help pin Iraqi forces in place. Plenty of other options would have been as or more effective, including simply bombing them, or laying air-dropped mines.
"The operation was classified as a combat jump by the Army, although the landing zone was secured by Kurdish and American forces.[4]"
In Vietnam, the Junction City drop was effective, sort of, with heavy casualties, also with significant air superiority. They were unquestionably brave and motivated. Doable against a third world enemy, but had the politics allowed, would have probably been unnecessary. And I don't think there's much hope for future nancified governments to authorize even that force.
Operation Tomahawk in Korea might have been significant, except the enemy had already retreated.
It's certainly a valid tool for specific circumstances, but as a strategic element, their only time was in WWII, where they served with distinction.
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CPO Gregory Smith. Keeping politics out of the analysis...As I recall, it was the 173d ABN Bde that gave us a forced entry in northern Iraq in 2003 allowing us to cut-off the Iraqi high command's escape after the Turks denied our request to send a mechanized division into Iraq over their southern boarder. The boys from Vicenza did a great job and forced Saddam and his two sons into hiding, while also taking some pressure off of our forces in the main attack from Kuwait.
Also, the surprise created by the 82nd's jump into Panama in 1989 was complete and safely took many Panamanian Army units out of the fight before they could rush in and get killed in the process. I suspect that the Russian use of airborne forces since WWII have had many similar successes that the west is unaware of.
I also suspect that Airborne troops will be around for a long time to reinforce our assault and initial entry forces, like the 75th Ranger Regt.
Also, the surprise created by the 82nd's jump into Panama in 1989 was complete and safely took many Panamanian Army units out of the fight before they could rush in and get killed in the process. I suspect that the Russian use of airborne forces since WWII have had many similar successes that the west is unaware of.
I also suspect that Airborne troops will be around for a long time to reinforce our assault and initial entry forces, like the 75th Ranger Regt.
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If I remember 173rd airborne did a airborne drop in Afghanistan. I recall the Battalion commander wanted one done in order to claim that...It's a story I heard off of CBS news during the early part of OEF....As far as being outdated, I think so.....The glory days of paratroopers to me seem obsolete but I have much respect for the paratroopers. You gotta have big balls in order to want to jump out of a perfectly good plane...That's something I wouldn't want to do, because I don't have the big balls to do that....lol...
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SGT Daniel Rocco Ames
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette True, but they still parachuted into a hostile country. That, in itself, is still dangerous and worthy if a degree of praise.
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SGT Daniel Rocco Ames
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette True, but it was still harder than a normal jump at Bragg or in Vincenza.
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This sums it up well...
http://www.517prct.org/documents/82nd_airborne_poster/82nd_airborne_poster.htm
http://www.517prct.org/documents/82nd_airborne_poster/82nd_airborne_poster.htm
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SSG Robert Webster
Good Post of a Glider Rider (Gliderman) of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment. One of the original Infantry units of the 82nd Infantry Division.
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