Posted on Jul 25, 2017
GySgt John O'Donnell
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I recently attended an Air Force Boot Camp Graduation and I saw an Air Force SSgt (E-5) and an Army SSgt (E-6) each wearing an Meritorious Service Medal (Both with less than 12 years service). Now I know there are some difference between branches of service, but this was very surprising considering in the Marine Corps there is a very high standard required to receive the award. Opinions please.
Posted in these groups: Us medals AwardsLeadership abstract 007 Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
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SFC (Other / Not listed)
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I am not sure about the Air Force, but in the Army an E-6 with an MSM usually got it awarded for doing a difficult duty assignment like drill sergeant, recruiter, or certain instructor positions, and even then it is still pretty rare. There also has been a change in how end of tour awards in combat zones are processed (for the Army at least). Soldiers doing administrative jobs in combat zones can now be awarded a MSM instead of a Bronze Star for Meritorious Service. The reality is though, the MSM or BSM for Meritorious Service in a combat zone is the equivalent of a Commendation Medal for peacetime activities. You are going to see them more often now because of the changes in the regulations as far as awarding an MSM in a combat zone.
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GySgt Bill Smith
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Edited >1 y ago
Simply yes. I used to look at BS and MSM's and think wow, now after seeing so many and hearing what they got them for the BS and MSM do not impress me.
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SGT Mathew Husen
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As a E-5, I received an MSM for my last deployment. I ran the S3 of a Civil Affair company, and set the standard for how its done for the rest of the battalion.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
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I've long felt that awards of many decorations depend on politics, prejudices and connections of the people involved. While I was at Fort Campbell, I knew a Colonel who had received an ARCOM for performing duties that would have guaranteed a Legion of Merit had she been a male surgeon instead of female. For an even more egregious example, read the history behind the 50-year-late award of the Medal of Honor to Tibor Rubin. He was recommended for the medal on four different occasions for four separate acts of heroism only to have the paperwork put in the circular file by an antisemitic First Sergeant. Perhaps part of the solution might be to have blind processing of recommendations -- that is, with identifying data redacted from the paperwork so that the focus remains on the actions and performance being reviewed and not on the identity of the person performing them.
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SFC Personnel  Sergeant
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I don't believe it is a watered down award. I didn't see a lot of soldiers wearing the MSM, let me rephrase that, I didn't see many EM's or NCO's wearing the MSN. It takes much more that accomplishing your duties to get the award. Now I do admit that my last award of the MSN, which isn't in my photo here was sent to me after my retirement, I didn't think that I did anything out of the norm to receive the award. Being last duty station and retirement
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SSG Medical Nco, Platoon Sergeant
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The MSM has become a standardized EOT award for fobbits. Even the BSM has been watered down. I served alongside a unit that knew what EOT awards would be awarded, before they did their right seat ride...
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
>1 y
Maybe its me looking through my "red and gold' colored glasses, but I know very few MSMs given for EOT. That said, BS have become the fashion for the officer ranks. IMHO the BS should only be for specific combat action only, and use MSM for non combat meritorious actions.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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What we are talking about here is the difference in culture between the services. One service might be more stingy, while others more liberal.
What is the case though is that each service has in their respective regulation guidance, authority, and some semblance of criteria for award. Since the MSM crosses the services, the criteria was set by Congress and Executive Order and reads more or less the same:
From AR 600-8-22 para 3-16
3–16. Meritorious Service Medal
a. The MSM was established by EO 11448, 16 January 1969 as amended by EO 12312, 2 July 1981, as amended by EO 13286, 28 March 2003. It is awarded to any Servicemember of the Armed Forces of the United States or to any member of the armed forces of a friendly foreign nation who has distinguished himself or herself by outstanding meritorious achievement or service.
b. After 16 January 1969 but prior to 11 September 2001, the MSM is authorized to be awarded only for meritorious service or achievement while serving in a noncombat area.
c. Effective 11 September 2001 to a date to be determined, the DCS, G–1 granted an exception to policy to award the MSM in a combat theater for noncombat meritorious achievement and service for the Global War on Terrorism era. This exception does not authorize the MSM to be used as an upgrade or downgrade to or from a recommended BSM.
d. An MSM recommendation that is downgraded will be approved as an ARCOM.

So the takeaway here is that the MSM is for "better" than an ARCOM, but "less" than an LOM.
Now, that allows for a wide range of latitude for an approval authority - a Flag Officer in all services - to bestow this award on assigned personnel.

Ultimately, if you have a beef, it is with the Approval Authority, not with the service or the military as a whole. I would agree that SSG (Army) guy and SGT (Air Force) guy probably did not meet the same test as some retiring E-8 or O-6 PCSing from BDE Command, but some General Officer thinks differently.
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SSG Frank Uttley
SSG Frank Uttley
8 y
I received the MSM but was told I had been recommended for the LOM however since I didn't have any higher medals It was down graded to an MSM. Even though it was submitted by a Lt. Gen.. But that was over 30 years ago
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
1SG (Join to see)
8 y
SSG Frank Uttley - If that were the case, you would not have to be told that it was recommended as an LOM, since Army Regulation 600-8-22 requires that in a case where an intermediate authority downgrades an award, the original DA 638 becomes a permanent record. Mostly because higher-level awards are subject to review for potential upgrade.
What makes your case strange is that typically a LTG would be the approval authority for an LOM, not a recommender. If he recommended it, he could approve it on the spot.
What were the circumstances? You've got my curiousity up.
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SSG Frank Uttley
SSG Frank Uttley
8 y
1SG (Join to see) - I really don't know I never doubted or questioned the comment. It was presented by XO who was a Major. I was assigned to DFAE at the time
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SSG Frank Uttley
SSG Frank Uttley
8 y
SSG Frank Uttley - I retired as a SSG E-6 with over 15 years time in grade. I was on the recommended list for E-7 4 years in a row the last year my name just dropped off and I had to retire, up or out requirement. That was in 1982
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COL Jon Thompson
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In my 30 years of service, the MSM is one medal that I do not think is inflated. It requires a 2-star GO commander approval. So I would guess that is an Army SSG was wearing one, he/she probably did something to earn that since it requires that level of approval. The exception I could see is if that person served on a GO staff and was taken care of that way.
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SSG Human Intelligence Collector
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>1 y
The MSM that I received as an E5 was signed by General Carter Ham. A great man and leader. I was proud of that signature on my award!
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
>1 y
Not to pry or be rude, but as an E-5 with an MSM, please enlighten me to your personal meritorious action than were "significantly" beyond your scope, rank, responsibility that earned you the honor. I'm sincerely curious and mean no disrespect at all.
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SFC Michael Spellman
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Unless there has been a change to the regulation, there is no regulatory guidance that says a service member must be of a certain rank or have a certain amount of time in service to qualify for an award. Yes, it does seem a bit odd to see someone below the rank of E-7 wearing an MSM, but there are many reasons why someone would. In my opinion, all awards have been watered down and handed out like candy.....it's not just the MSM!
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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For many years, BSMs were handed out quite a bit for EOT awards. It seems that those are being cut back in favor of a lower-presidense award. I've seen E5s receive MSMs who were very much deserving, and E4s who should have but didn't for that reason. Awards should be driven based on achievement and not rank, but as they say, it is what it is.
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