Posted on Sep 12, 2016
PO3 Aaron Hassay
25.2K
279
156
12
12
0
15bf493a
I feel it the old Military Paygrade Enlisted Officer system is not optimal, to take advantage the new use of the 1975 induction of the AVF All Volunteer Force educated citizen/service member, when the DOD finally had QOL Quality Of Life as a budget item?

The old system seems to start from the world of kings and queens monarchy's etc where the plebeian are drafted, conscripted, and separated from various functional civilized intelligent things in various ways.

We still need a fighting force willing to stand strong. No one disagrees. Now we have over 90% high school graduates at a minimum enlisting as early as 18 in the AVF since 1975, who should be able to be honored for their intelligence, determination, willingness to be that force that defends. We are no longer drafted into the old world construct of military systems.
Posted in these groups: Dod color DoD1b1f1229 CongressEnjoying life logo Enjoying Life
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 71
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
Edited 9 y ago
I humbly believe military authority should be fixed instead of entirely getting rid of Commissioned Ranks. There should be no day where 2Lt. orders 1st Sgt. around. There should be official point where Non-Commissioned rank have more authority over someone who is commissioned with vastly larger amounts of experience without any red tape. For example E-7 and O-1 having the same amount authority. It baffles my simpleton mind that someone who spent 2 years in college for sociology degree or even accounting is suddenly thrust into platoon leader position after a few weeks (even months) of leadership training, with more authority than someone who was raised/distinguished from rank and file over the course of years.
PO1 Pete Sikes
0
0
0
And your solution to your theoretical problem?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
0
0
0
Your argument about our rank system being outdated and a feudal system is flae
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Scott Stroman
0
0
0
Having been enlisted and later commissioned, I have to disagree. Rank structure in the military is critical due to the very nature of our ultimate mission. We exist (1) to lay waste to our enemies, or (2) to support those doing (1). In either case, every single person so engaged must know exactly where they fit in the machine. Navy officers have not only ranks but lineal numbers and corps designations to know where they stand in the chain of command. I'm sure it's the same for the other services. If a line officer is doing his/her job, he/she is spending a good amount of time training his/her immediate junior to step up into the senior job, and is also studying under the wing of the next senior person. That's because people get killed in war, and sometimes in other circumstances. When that happens, the continuity of the organization demands that someone be ready to step up take charge. As far as officer vs. enlisted, as it's been mentioned, the distinction is sometimes due to level of civilian education achieved but more often ties to the responsibilities associated with the job to be filled. Upward mobility exists for those who are able and motivated. I served with some folks who couldn't pass a rating exam with the answers in hand, and others who went up the ladder so fast that all I had to do was get out of their way.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
COL William Oseles
0
0
0
The difference in pay us not based on education but based on the level of responsibility of the positions.

As a 2LT I signed for in b excess of $9 Million in equipment and had 4 SSGs signing for $2.8 Million each.
On a good day they were responsible for 4 Soldiers while I was responsible for 22.
Granted education at all levels are improved, but that is not the cause of the pay differential.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Jonathan Nagy
0
0
0
Please remember this was typed by a po"3". Entitaled kiddies need to remember that sure you may be "smart" but you get payed for responsibility and position. Remember a brand new soldier still gets payed far better than a civilian if your right out of Highschool tho you rarely notice. Sure you actual take home pay is shit BUT full complete healthcare, enlisted up to E-5 (or respective pay grade) have Barrakes ability (no rent, no utilities and free maintained laundry.) you have the chow hall so free food, yes the hrs suck but it's there so as long as your not a child with your money you can live comfortably right off the bat. You get pay raises every year plus every every survice year, 2 cents is still 2cents more lol. You get 30 days of PAID leave every year (no civilian job does that. Free quality gym access, cheap food and booze. If you add up all the shit you don't pay for you actually make a lot more than what your end of the year income statement says. Yes i was just an E-4 but 7 years later I made more than your typical new Single E-5 and even stupid with my money I was doing fine. We get days off like crazy and all they ask is that we are on time in the right uniform and we are doing what we should be or at least not fucking up, he'll only in the military can you experience going to work and not doing a damn thing because you litterally have nothing to do and don't you dare say that never happens I have friends in the AF that will call your bs. And when it comes time to deploy you get payed a little more for the trouble and actually work for your paycheck tho I will admit cutting deployment pay to a 4th what it used to be IS bullshit. All in all I'll admit soldiers arnt payed enough on principle but the pay grade system doesn't need to be changed. As a SPC I didn't deserve to make as much as an E-6. I didn't make my 5 for personal reasons
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
1SG Al Brown
0
0
0
No. It works. It's been fair enough that no group has revolted, beyond striving for promotion to receive more compensation. Also, Officers make the rules, and I don't see them arguing to change the pay system anytime soon. It's good to be the king, until you're not.
(0)
Comment
(0)
2LT Quartermaster Officer
2LT (Join to see)
9 y
This is where I see an issue, the commissioned side of the house lives very comfortably. You can tell from the comments alone of who "agrees" and "disagrees" all you have to do is look at the rank they hold/held.

I must also state that while a lot of the enlisted commenters talk about patriotism, that is great. But I have had officers literally tell me they would never joined to be enlisted or do what the enlisted does for the pay they receive. Case and point.

Even congress knows with civilian wages rising (minimum wage) that the compensation needs to remain competitive if they want to keep numbers up. At the same time they continue to cut benefits to the point where eventually enlisted may only have their base pay to survive off of, which makes a huge difference.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
It's not based on education, so no, that has nothing to do with it and doesn't change anything. The degree requirement is arbitrary.
SSG Squad Leader At 558tc
SSG (Join to see)
7 y
If the degree requirements were arbitrary you wouldn't need them to commission.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPO Interior Communications Electrician
0
0
0
It is not the education of the enlisted that necessarily drives the pay system, but rather the job function. Officers volunteer as well. If you think life is all rosy for an officer, ask them. The pay is better, of course. The amount of BS they have to deal with though is why they get paid the way they do. The military services are employers. The pay isn't the best, but the beenfits are what counts.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Walter Thomason
0
0
0
How do you measure intelligence, determination, willingness to be that for that defends? By your ASVAB scores? By the job that you do day to day, showing your ability to not only do the job but learn about their craft and their service? Not to leave out learning not only to be a leader but what leadership is about. No one can measure someone based on who they think they are or what they appear like on paper. In my years, I knew quite a few that were either intelligent and capable but too lazy to trust to scratch his own butt. Or the ones that are book smart but couldn't do their jobs properly to save their own life. As you progress in rank, that is what it is supposed to be about is those determined to accomplish the mission and lead and has demonstrated it continually as they have progressed through the ranks. Even in Officers, some of the best I've seen started out Lt's that understood they were in charge but understood their NCO's (the good ones anyway) were there to help them learn and keep them out of trouble. The Officers that felt they were the Officer and you were the enlisted and there was nothing they could get from you... Most of the time it was a pretty amusing experience. I'll never forget the exercise with Captain M. The Sr. NCO's kept trying to tell her she didn't want to set up the cantonment area between and old runway and a taxiway. "I'm the Officer in charge and this is where I want it!" We woke up the next morning in 6-7 inches of muddy, swampy, smelly water. I don't intend to come across as condescending or any other way but the truth is that the system isn't perfect but it works and it works for a good reason. There is no better teacher than experience and learning from good leaders, especially in an AVF.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close