Posted on Jul 20, 2015
Is the T-11 more dangerous than the T-10 parachute?
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Since they first started transitioning to the T-11 parachute I have had fears of its dangers. The parachute is much larger, but spacing between paratroopers remains the same increasing the probability of entanglements. There are 4 holes in each corner of the T-11 parachute to help prevent oscillation, but paratroopers have fallen through these holes and gotten stuck. The change in parachutes was meant to accommodate heavier paratroopers/more gear. The only time I feel somewhat safe jumping with this parachute is in full gear, because the extra weight gives more control. With full gear, I am still barely able to slip away due to the size of this parachute (I have literally climbed up the line to try and slip with minimal success).
With this new report by Army Times finding that "The incident would not have occurred if the soldiers had used a T-10 version of the pack closing tie (the rope holding the parachute together that is broken when it deploys)."
It seems to me that the T-10 is tested and true when compared to the T-11. I continue to hear of numerous injuries and deaths tied to the T-11 since its implementation. So for those who have jumped both, do you think the T-11 is more dangerous? Should smaller troops be given the option to jump with the T-10? Could we do more to prevent these needless deaths? Personally, I would chose the T-10 over the T-11 any day.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/07/20/report-jumpmaster-cited-training-death-paratrooper/30374491/
With this new report by Army Times finding that "The incident would not have occurred if the soldiers had used a T-10 version of the pack closing tie (the rope holding the parachute together that is broken when it deploys)."
It seems to me that the T-10 is tested and true when compared to the T-11. I continue to hear of numerous injuries and deaths tied to the T-11 since its implementation. So for those who have jumped both, do you think the T-11 is more dangerous? Should smaller troops be given the option to jump with the T-10? Could we do more to prevent these needless deaths? Personally, I would chose the T-10 over the T-11 any day.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/07/20/report-jumpmaster-cited-training-death-paratrooper/30374491/
Paratrooper
Parachuting
Training
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 21
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Interesting perspective, SGT Kristin Wiley, and it makes sense to me. Considering it's the Army though, and their never ending desire for uniformity, I doubt they'll allow the individual soldier an option to pick a parachute. Of note, my Army jump career ended before the anti-inversion net was even introduced on the T-10, yet I never had a malfunction.
When I skydived, many of my jumps were with 7-TUs, a 28' USAF canopy. Even at 185 pounds (heavy for a skydiver, I know), descent rates were moderate and tolerable. I can only imagine what you must deal with considering your relatively light weight and the size of the mammoth T-11.
The photo is of my T-10 canopy (notice the absence of the anti-inversion net) at DZ Castellanos, Camp Blanding, FL on 10OCT70. We jumped a Lockheed C-141 Starlifter, taking off from NAS Jacksonville. WO1 Tim Vaclav
When I skydived, many of my jumps were with 7-TUs, a 28' USAF canopy. Even at 185 pounds (heavy for a skydiver, I know), descent rates were moderate and tolerable. I can only imagine what you must deal with considering your relatively light weight and the size of the mammoth T-11.
The photo is of my T-10 canopy (notice the absence of the anti-inversion net) at DZ Castellanos, Camp Blanding, FL on 10OCT70. We jumped a Lockheed C-141 Starlifter, taking off from NAS Jacksonville. WO1 Tim Vaclav
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SGT Kristin Wiley
I agree, I don't think they'll allow soldiers to choose, but if they are concerned for safety then need to at least change the procedures to ensure there is adequate spacing between jumpers. We are supposed to exit at 1 second intervals, but I've timed it multiple times and we always exit with less than 1 second intervals (same standard between T-10 and T-11). There should be more time to accommodate the large parachute especially during mass tactical jumps where both doors exit simultaneously. I also believe we need to be jumping from a higher elevation since it takes longer for the T-11 parachute and the T-11 reserve shoot to fully inflate.
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LTC Stephen C.
SGT Kristin Wiley, that's another easily administered safety precaution that will likely continue to be neglected. On the smaller DZs, the jumpmaster's just trying to make sure everyone gets on the DZ, so everyone goes out the door as quickly as possible. I can remember going out one after another with no concern for timing or exit position at all.
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The emphasis has always been on safety. The jumpmaster did not take care of this soldier. A finding of negligence vs dereliction of duty, losing his master wings seems light for a life.
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SSG (Join to see)
There were so many things wrong with that Jump. All four safeties were on their first safety duty, the Jumpmaster wasn't current...the Airborne Commander should be relieved.
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There have been far too many airborne deaths at Fort Bragg in the last year or so. At least three according to this article. The article states 3 deaths out of 63,000 jumps. That is WAY too high. That's almost one death per every Division level jump!
Airborne ops suspended after two paratrooper deaths
The XVIII Airborne Corps has suspended all airborne operations following the deaths of two paratroopers in less than two weeks.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
There are too many deaths and too many injuries, both which can be prevented if we put safety first. There are many revisions that can be made to decrease the risks of both. It also doesn't help that WOMACK does not take minor airborne injuries seriously. Everyone complains of getting hurt on jumps, so the hospital treats everyone like they are faking. I had two whiplash injuries from the helmet weighing too much, and I was just beginning to get treatment prior to my TDY (almost 4 years later). We shouldn't have to wait for these injuries to get worse to get proper treatment.
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MC-6 has always been the greatest parachute. I've tried all three. The other day, my unit was supposed to do a jump with the 82nd with us jumping the T-11 for the first time in years. The jump was cancelled due to weather. I am a jump chaser because of my goal of becoming a jumpmaster, but I was very thankful I didn't have to do that jump last week. Nothing against the 82nd specifically (we would be jumping from a separate aircraft), but the T-11 is not a very good chute. When we did prejump, the jumpmaster had to read three extra pages on top of what he usually did for the MC-6. That told me something as far back as pre-jump rehearsals.
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The emphasis has always been on safety. The jumpmaster failed in his care of this soldier. I haven' jumped in over 40 years, losing jump master wings seems very light for the life of a "Trooper".
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Its reasons like this that make me NEVER EVER want to jump out of a plane. I will take my chances with the crash.
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It is a sad day.
RIP Sgt. Schmigel.
RIP Sgt. Schmigel.
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This is really sad - I don't know anything about jumping or different parachute types, so I can't comment on that, but I feel terrible for this young soldier that she died because someone else wasn't doing their job! Yes - maybe she made a mistake in the initial routing - and maybe she should have checked it? I don't know - but what I do know is it shouldn't have happened.
We are all on the same team people and EVERYONE's job is important - everyone's!
We are all on the same team people and EVERYONE's job is important - everyone's!
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I hear a lot of people say that there was nothing wrong with the T-10 and that it's a safer parachute than the T-11. Well, there's been multiple studies done comparing the two, both before and after the T-10 was phased out in favor of the T-11. The results are: The T-11 is a safer parachute in all scenarios, except one: mid-air entanglements. If a mid-air entanglement occurs, the paratroopers involved are better off if they are using T-10s instead of T-11s. Personally, I prefer the T-11. I dropped like a bag of rocks with the T-10, and I had much more difficulty preventing oscillations.
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