Posted on Apr 18, 2022
Is there a "Mop-up" Crew from the Mortuary Affairs that enters a serviceman's private residence when a Suicide occurs?
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My Active Duty USAF Son committed suicide in Dec 2019, in his off base, non-military housing. He was a MSgt with nearly 20 years service.
The Investigative Report into his suicide was the shoddiest piece of detective work I have ever seen? I have been trying to get his medical records and all I get is lies, obfuscation and misdirection. Even a FOIA by my US Senator did not produce the information.
As his mother and eldest next of kin, I have a right to this information - by law. He never married or had issue. Unfortunately, I do not have the financial means to hire a lawyer. I am 71 and live below the poverty level. I was not the beneficiary of his estate, nor his "contact person". All the information I have been able to uncover I have ferreted out myself.
His Death Certificate was also a botched job. His father's name, my name and the spelling his sister's last name was incorrect. My son and I were adamant about "truth" and hated liars. North Dakota Dept of Health said that they could correct the spelling of the parents names from my son's Birth Certificate, but they could not correct my daughters.
The Death Certificate stated an incorrect time of death. I wanted that corrected too because it was not the time that was stated in the police report. I was told that it cannot be changed, so I wanted to know where that time of death came from. I was 1 hour before the police were ever called to his private residence.
On the second day that he did not show up for work, someone from the military went to his house for a "wellness check". They entered his off base housing illegally. The proper protocol is if the serviceman is expected to be home, (Brian's Truck was present and the TV was on) and he doesn't answer the door, the local police are called and together they enter. Obviously, that is not what happened. Hence, my question for anyone with experience in Mortuary Affairs. Does the military have a Mortuary "Mop-up Crew" including someone who has the power and authority to pronounce him dead? Does Mortuary Affairs conduct a separate search of possessions and takes an "inventory" things that would indicate the true cause of death?
For instance, my son's $6,000 apiece hearing aids were missing in the police report. He was in Munitions and I believe his brain was severely acoustically concussed multiple times. Beginning with his last 2 deployments, he began cutting family members out of his life. I just happened to be the first. His behavior was similar to that of Mike Webster of the Pittsburgh Steelers in the book/movie. "Concussion". Yes, the brain can be concussed by sound and that is something that the military has known for years. They acknowledge the ever climbing suicide rate, yet they don't correlate it with Traumatic Brain Injuries. Another obfuscation. Has anyone ever heard of any cutting edge technology to help heal the brain of TBI's caused by IED's? NO! That would be the right thing for the military to do - Instead of spouting lip-service. They pooh pawed Agent Orange too. Reminds me of the stupidity of building nuclear power plants all over the globe yet we don't know how to safely store radioactive waste. Waste that will still be active for a million years. Dah!
It would help if someone could tell me just what an Active Duty Mortuary Mop up Crew's job entails. Thank you. They stole his hearing aids, yet they did not tear down the brown paper bags he attached to his bedroom windows to keep the light out. I do know he had a "sleep study" done, but no facts were given.
It is also strange that the Death Certificate listed the correct name of the local "on call and weekly rotated doctor", who is not a coroner, yet acts in that capacity because Ward County does not have a Coroner. A huge NUCLEAR military base in the county and they don't have a coroner who can perform autopsies? How strange. There is no such thing as coincidence. Does this explain the angry email I received from the state's Dept of Health when I dared to ask why an autopsy was not performed.
How do I get to the truth?
The Investigative Report into his suicide was the shoddiest piece of detective work I have ever seen? I have been trying to get his medical records and all I get is lies, obfuscation and misdirection. Even a FOIA by my US Senator did not produce the information.
As his mother and eldest next of kin, I have a right to this information - by law. He never married or had issue. Unfortunately, I do not have the financial means to hire a lawyer. I am 71 and live below the poverty level. I was not the beneficiary of his estate, nor his "contact person". All the information I have been able to uncover I have ferreted out myself.
His Death Certificate was also a botched job. His father's name, my name and the spelling his sister's last name was incorrect. My son and I were adamant about "truth" and hated liars. North Dakota Dept of Health said that they could correct the spelling of the parents names from my son's Birth Certificate, but they could not correct my daughters.
The Death Certificate stated an incorrect time of death. I wanted that corrected too because it was not the time that was stated in the police report. I was told that it cannot be changed, so I wanted to know where that time of death came from. I was 1 hour before the police were ever called to his private residence.
On the second day that he did not show up for work, someone from the military went to his house for a "wellness check". They entered his off base housing illegally. The proper protocol is if the serviceman is expected to be home, (Brian's Truck was present and the TV was on) and he doesn't answer the door, the local police are called and together they enter. Obviously, that is not what happened. Hence, my question for anyone with experience in Mortuary Affairs. Does the military have a Mortuary "Mop-up Crew" including someone who has the power and authority to pronounce him dead? Does Mortuary Affairs conduct a separate search of possessions and takes an "inventory" things that would indicate the true cause of death?
For instance, my son's $6,000 apiece hearing aids were missing in the police report. He was in Munitions and I believe his brain was severely acoustically concussed multiple times. Beginning with his last 2 deployments, he began cutting family members out of his life. I just happened to be the first. His behavior was similar to that of Mike Webster of the Pittsburgh Steelers in the book/movie. "Concussion". Yes, the brain can be concussed by sound and that is something that the military has known for years. They acknowledge the ever climbing suicide rate, yet they don't correlate it with Traumatic Brain Injuries. Another obfuscation. Has anyone ever heard of any cutting edge technology to help heal the brain of TBI's caused by IED's? NO! That would be the right thing for the military to do - Instead of spouting lip-service. They pooh pawed Agent Orange too. Reminds me of the stupidity of building nuclear power plants all over the globe yet we don't know how to safely store radioactive waste. Waste that will still be active for a million years. Dah!
It would help if someone could tell me just what an Active Duty Mortuary Mop up Crew's job entails. Thank you. They stole his hearing aids, yet they did not tear down the brown paper bags he attached to his bedroom windows to keep the light out. I do know he had a "sleep study" done, but no facts were given.
It is also strange that the Death Certificate listed the correct name of the local "on call and weekly rotated doctor", who is not a coroner, yet acts in that capacity because Ward County does not have a Coroner. A huge NUCLEAR military base in the county and they don't have a coroner who can perform autopsies? How strange. There is no such thing as coincidence. Does this explain the angry email I received from the state's Dept of Health when I dared to ask why an autopsy was not performed.
How do I get to the truth?
Posted in these groups: Mortuary ScienceMortuary Affairs NCO
Minot AFB
TBI57F: Mortuary Affairs Specialist
Minot AFB TBI57F: Mortuary Affairs Specialist
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
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From what I've read, you want access to your son's medical records. You can, and have already accessed his service records. Under HIPAA, you are not authorized access to his medical records without him releasing them, even if you are the next of kin - and it sounds like he removed you as the next of kin, otherwise you would have received a $100k death gratuity and a $400k life insurance payment.
Unless someone specifically released their record to you, it is illegal for the medical clinic to release it. I couldn't even get a copy of my wife's negative covid test results needed to fly out to a new duty station, without her written consent on a form. Once my kids turned 14 I couldn't access any of their medical records or information. It is illegal for the AF to turn over your son's medical records to anyone who doesn't meet the legal definition of need-to-know. Under federal law you are not entitled to this information as you stated. Under federal law, his Protected Health Information remains protected for 50 years.
As for the coroner, you don't need a coroner to pronounce a death. A medical doctor is authorized to legally declare the death, and they may use the time the paramedics gave as the time, if that's what the doctor chooses.
Minot is not a "huge nuclear military base". Minot is out in the middle of nowhere, and Minot AFB is out past there. The whole base has a population of about 5,000 basically one Army infantry brigade. A place that small barely has enough staff for a chow hall and a gym. The entire county population is 67,000, that's like the size of fort Bragg.
Mortuary affairs doesn't do anything except handle dead bodies. They have nothing to do with anything other than once the body is handed to them. They don't handle the autopsies, they certainly don't handle the investigation, or any cleanup at the residence. They handle the remains of the fallen, that is their job.
As to the people who found your son and cleaned up, it's off post so it's a civilian matter. Most likely someone from his work walked in because the front door was unlocked. The unit is responsible for collecting his items, but the place is still owned by the owner who is now responsible for emptying and cleaning up a residence. The owner or property manager most likely called the unit, asked someone to come out and collect his belongings. Hearing aids are small and can get lost easily. I don't know the manner of death, but it's possible the hearing aids were broken or not fit to keep and were disposed of by the crew cleaning up and cataloging all the possessions.
Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a mop up crew. A few guys from the unit get the unenviable task of going over to their comrade's house and packing it up. People are sad, people are distraught, crying, and disoriented. There is no person or entity who has this as their job, but it has to get done. Things get lost and mistakes get made. It doesn't sound like anyone is trying to hide anything from you. It was an unfortunate death. He removed you as the next of kin and death beneficiary before he died. His landlord and people from his unit had to come clean up afterwards. If there wasn't an autopsy then there probably wasn't a good reason to have an autopsy, as determined by a qualified medical physician.
What is the information that you hope to uncover? It clearly sounds like you are alluding to a conspiracy or cover up. You said there's no such thing as a coincidence after mentioning that there is no coroner. Do you think a base that probably sees about one death every 5-10 years is hiding something by purposely not employing a coroner? Do you think there was some secret to your son's suicide? It sounds pretty straightforward to me, depression from repeated TBI, leading to suicide. An autopsy isn't going to prove or disprove that. What is the truth you hope to expose by gaining access to your son's records?
Unless someone specifically released their record to you, it is illegal for the medical clinic to release it. I couldn't even get a copy of my wife's negative covid test results needed to fly out to a new duty station, without her written consent on a form. Once my kids turned 14 I couldn't access any of their medical records or information. It is illegal for the AF to turn over your son's medical records to anyone who doesn't meet the legal definition of need-to-know. Under federal law you are not entitled to this information as you stated. Under federal law, his Protected Health Information remains protected for 50 years.
As for the coroner, you don't need a coroner to pronounce a death. A medical doctor is authorized to legally declare the death, and they may use the time the paramedics gave as the time, if that's what the doctor chooses.
Minot is not a "huge nuclear military base". Minot is out in the middle of nowhere, and Minot AFB is out past there. The whole base has a population of about 5,000 basically one Army infantry brigade. A place that small barely has enough staff for a chow hall and a gym. The entire county population is 67,000, that's like the size of fort Bragg.
Mortuary affairs doesn't do anything except handle dead bodies. They have nothing to do with anything other than once the body is handed to them. They don't handle the autopsies, they certainly don't handle the investigation, or any cleanup at the residence. They handle the remains of the fallen, that is their job.
As to the people who found your son and cleaned up, it's off post so it's a civilian matter. Most likely someone from his work walked in because the front door was unlocked. The unit is responsible for collecting his items, but the place is still owned by the owner who is now responsible for emptying and cleaning up a residence. The owner or property manager most likely called the unit, asked someone to come out and collect his belongings. Hearing aids are small and can get lost easily. I don't know the manner of death, but it's possible the hearing aids were broken or not fit to keep and were disposed of by the crew cleaning up and cataloging all the possessions.
Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a mop up crew. A few guys from the unit get the unenviable task of going over to their comrade's house and packing it up. People are sad, people are distraught, crying, and disoriented. There is no person or entity who has this as their job, but it has to get done. Things get lost and mistakes get made. It doesn't sound like anyone is trying to hide anything from you. It was an unfortunate death. He removed you as the next of kin and death beneficiary before he died. His landlord and people from his unit had to come clean up afterwards. If there wasn't an autopsy then there probably wasn't a good reason to have an autopsy, as determined by a qualified medical physician.
What is the information that you hope to uncover? It clearly sounds like you are alluding to a conspiracy or cover up. You said there's no such thing as a coincidence after mentioning that there is no coroner. Do you think a base that probably sees about one death every 5-10 years is hiding something by purposely not employing a coroner? Do you think there was some secret to your son's suicide? It sounds pretty straightforward to me, depression from repeated TBI, leading to suicide. An autopsy isn't going to prove or disprove that. What is the truth you hope to expose by gaining access to your son's records?
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CPL M Miller
SFC Cynthia Eyer - Opinions are what Quora forum is about. If OP does want an answer based on an individuals perspective, thats what it is here for. Conversly, if one isnot ready to hear any reply opinions. DONT ASK THE QUESTION Here.
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LTC Jason Mackay
https://www.mortuary.af.mil/Portals/31/dafi34-160_Chap_13.pdf
DAFI 134-160 covers the disposition of personal effects. The PERE the Summary Court Martial Officer (SCO) are the key players.
Not a “Mop Up Crew” but people with prescribed duties and responsibilities.
DAFI 134-160 covers the disposition of personal effects. The PERE the Summary Court Martial Officer (SCO) are the key players.
Not a “Mop Up Crew” but people with prescribed duties and responsibilities.
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CPL M Miller
SFC Cynthia Eyer - not so intended. only opinion, (mine) as was asked for. if no opinion was wanted, no question should have been asked.
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The biggest issue you have is that if you were NOT listed as his Next of Kin on military documents, then that is the main reason why you are not getting where you want to get. If you can find out who that is, you will need to discuss with them. Also, who was listed as the Beneficiary on the Will that the Air Force had on your son? Listed POA? As for "mop up crews," no...there is no such thing. I recommend, if you have not done so, is a few things: 1) Contact the base JAG office to see if they can retrieve for you the name of the listed NoK, the POA and the Beneficiary; 2) Submit an SF 180 to the National Archives for ALL military documents on your son. Plus, I am not finding a Mortuary Affairs unit located at Minot AFB. If that is the case and there is no unit there, then all mortuary affairs and actions would be taken over by civilian entities.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, how do you know the hearing aids were stolen? Just because they were not listed in the report, that does not mean they were stolen.
Unfortunately, you may have to find a way to scrape up the means to afford a lawyer for this. Since the death occurred on the civilian side of the fence, that means that's where all the information is.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, how do you know the hearing aids were stolen? Just because they were not listed in the report, that does not mean they were stolen.
Unfortunately, you may have to find a way to scrape up the means to afford a lawyer for this. Since the death occurred on the civilian side of the fence, that means that's where all the information is.
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Diane Junk
I was listed as next-of-kin on the vRed. I was not to be contacted in case of death due to "health". I am elderly and live alone. My daughter informed me of his suicide. She was listed as contact person and life insurance beneficiary. She told me that the military at Minot AFB needed my POA, because I was the eldest Next of Kin. Without it, she could not enter Brian's residence. I gave it to her. A month after the service at Minot, which I was not invited to attend, I found out the truth. She lied. She used it to disperse his household and personal effects. How did I find out? I co-signed for his vehicle in 2005 and my name was still on the title after he paid it off. The truck was shipped to my former Brother-in-Law who could not transfer the title in PA without my signature. He drove the vehicle to me. After finding out the truth, yet not understanding the full impact of the lie, we became estranged.
The JAG office at Minot told me that in order to obtain Brian's medical records, I would need proof from a Probate Judge that the original Last Will and Testament, a copy of which I sent them, was Probated. Previously, my daughter's lawyer told her that there is no law in PA that says you have to probate a Will. It named me as beneficiary. What was I to do? I was not given a list of household contents or a financial statement by my daughter. I am heart broken over her lies to me, heart broken over my son committing suicide, and I do not have the financial resources, nor do I want to see her prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. JAG office reminded me that Brian executed another Will at a later date that did not name me as beneficiary. To this day, that will has never been probated either.
I have submitted SF-180's 8 times myself and my US Congressman submitted twice. I have been lied to multiple times by the military. I have given the names of people to contact who do not exist. I have been given phone numbers in the USAF that connect to an answer machine that does not identify itself or take messages. Incidentally, I was given his personnel records within 2 months of his death.
I believe that his hearing aids were stolen because the police never found them (I double checked with them to be sure) and he needed them to hear. At $6,000 apiece, they were medically necessary.
If I failed to answer all your questions, it is because I'm crying and having great difficulty with the grieving process.
The JAG office at Minot told me that in order to obtain Brian's medical records, I would need proof from a Probate Judge that the original Last Will and Testament, a copy of which I sent them, was Probated. Previously, my daughter's lawyer told her that there is no law in PA that says you have to probate a Will. It named me as beneficiary. What was I to do? I was not given a list of household contents or a financial statement by my daughter. I am heart broken over her lies to me, heart broken over my son committing suicide, and I do not have the financial resources, nor do I want to see her prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. JAG office reminded me that Brian executed another Will at a later date that did not name me as beneficiary. To this day, that will has never been probated either.
I have submitted SF-180's 8 times myself and my US Congressman submitted twice. I have been lied to multiple times by the military. I have given the names of people to contact who do not exist. I have been given phone numbers in the USAF that connect to an answer machine that does not identify itself or take messages. Incidentally, I was given his personnel records within 2 months of his death.
I believe that his hearing aids were stolen because the police never found them (I double checked with them to be sure) and he needed them to hear. At $6,000 apiece, they were medically necessary.
If I failed to answer all your questions, it is because I'm crying and having great difficulty with the grieving process.
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MSG (Join to see)
Diane Junk - Based on what you said here and everywhere else in this thread....you are going to need a lawyer.
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SFC Cynthia Eyer
SFC, I was a beneficiary NCO in HR Mortuary Affairs. Regardless of where the military person is located, a CACO Officer will take over once notified. Always.
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I’m interested in finding out what company produces hearing aids that cost $6,000 a a piece. Also, even as next of kin, you aren’t legally entitled to any medical records.
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SSG Bill McCoy
I have hearing aids that were $12K; provided by the VA. Hearing aids - real ones fitted and provided by an audiologist - are very expensive. My last pair was $9K; the new ones are blue tooth and are top of the line with accessories to listen to the TV through blue tooth, and a small, remote speaker for the wife when so she doesn't have to scream from another room.
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SSG (Join to see)
I have oticons and they are blue tooth provided by the Army, total cost, $5300 for the pair SSG Bill McCoy
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SFC Cynthia Eyer
SSG (Join to see) Why must you argue with what others know of their own experience? What fear lurks within that brings you to spew your fear of not being enough onto others?
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Suspended Profile
SSG (Join to see) - Some BRAG about how much the VA got ripped off in providing hearing aids...like it makes them special. And I have NO IDEA of the cost of VA supplied items...only the PROCURING CONTRACT OFFICER KNOWS...NOT a technician in a clinic.
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