Posted on Oct 26, 2015
Is there any real advantage for veteran / disabled veteran status for federal jobs? I have not seen any so far.
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Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3
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PO1 Glenn Boucher I made call about this question and spoke to a very good friend who is in HR. This is how it was explained to me.
When hiring publicly advertised position a vet will be assigned points for certain medals earned, dates of service if they are for certain conflicts and disability as long as the disability letter is submitted. For a max of 10 points.
They will be at the top of the list of eligible candidates for the job however it does not guarantee they will get the the job, there may be a hundred other 10 point vets at the top of the list for that job opening. They have to be qualified for the position as well. They must also complete the interview.
The Government wants to hire vets and does in fact give them a preference but that preference is not an entitlement.
Think of it like this all things being equal between candidates the veterans preference will get you the job, but at the end of the day the best person to do the job will get it.
I strongly recommend reading this from opm
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide/
When hiring publicly advertised position a vet will be assigned points for certain medals earned, dates of service if they are for certain conflicts and disability as long as the disability letter is submitted. For a max of 10 points.
They will be at the top of the list of eligible candidates for the job however it does not guarantee they will get the the job, there may be a hundred other 10 point vets at the top of the list for that job opening. They have to be qualified for the position as well. They must also complete the interview.
The Government wants to hire vets and does in fact give them a preference but that preference is not an entitlement.
Think of it like this all things being equal between candidates the veterans preference will get you the job, but at the end of the day the best person to do the job will get it.
I strongly recommend reading this from opm
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide/
Welcome to opm.gov
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CAPT Kevin Ball mentioned internship and that's the road I'm on now. I've been told that it'll turn into an actual position when my time is up, so that gives me some hope, but it's taking a crap position where you're the lowest of the low, and making it work. I'm in Voc Rehab and they found the position for me. IN fact there are LOADS of internships in the federal government that folks don't look into. I think of it as paying my dues again, to get where I need to be. As far as the points letter, I cannot say it's helped being that the intern positions with Voc Rehab are specifically for wounded warriors above 30% disability, and even then when you go to get interviewed, you still could be declined entry into Voc Rehab.
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Some RP members don't like what I have to say because it's bursts their perception bubble. I was a federal manager for 27 years and hired all sorts of grades, series, and seeing hiring preference programs that have come and gone. The 5-15 points may or may not make a difference depending on the series given big factors like having the correct technical skills, able to communicate, etc. 5-15 won't help you there. For series you do qualify for it can affect where you show up on the Cert which the HR specialist creating the highly qualified, qualified, and not qualified groupings. From that point on when the actual selecting official or panel gets the Cert and resumes, then several things can happen. If the Cert actually got the highly qualifieds in the right Puka (likelihood varies widely by series), there's an expectation you'll select from the highly group. Many times the Cert is a mess and the panel has to work out the correct group they'd interview with HR. We'd always get HR on board as they need to understand and feel comfortable that they are doing their job right. One thing we do see is a "highly" that got bumped there because of points. There is frequent failure there because, if interviewed, then there's a great chance of the applicant blowing it. If the Vet was a close second, we'd go for the Vet most times. One thing that's a heart breaker is requiring a qualification you know the Vet can't achieve but was otherwise great and can't hire him.
Some good programs like "Hire a Hero" etc. on the Federal side in which we're bringing a Vet on as essentially an intern and then over the next year working out a good series/person fit and then a noncompetitive move into it has netted some great people. You just didn't know it then. Problem is if the Agency has to pay the salary, they don't like taking the risk of obtaining someone they can't find a home for. So like any other program, it can help or hurt.
Probably the biggest inhibitor to a Vet entering the Federal workforce is salary and billet caps. That means your organization's personnel staffing levels are always under attack. By the time I retired Civil Service in 2013, we were tracking about 80% fills from within the organization locally, regionally, or nation wide. There's usually a hiring freeze going on from March to September because they decided too late they're overstaffed vs. money. Also with draw downs overseas, employees returning have priority placement. They show up on the "Stopper List". Bottom line, it's tough when there's no room for you. It's bad for the organization as this ongoing situation is a morale killer and the good ones move on and the deadwood remains.
Bottom line, there's a lot of urban legend out there as to what Veterans Preference does. It's the classic results will vary.
Some good programs like "Hire a Hero" etc. on the Federal side in which we're bringing a Vet on as essentially an intern and then over the next year working out a good series/person fit and then a noncompetitive move into it has netted some great people. You just didn't know it then. Problem is if the Agency has to pay the salary, they don't like taking the risk of obtaining someone they can't find a home for. So like any other program, it can help or hurt.
Probably the biggest inhibitor to a Vet entering the Federal workforce is salary and billet caps. That means your organization's personnel staffing levels are always under attack. By the time I retired Civil Service in 2013, we were tracking about 80% fills from within the organization locally, regionally, or nation wide. There's usually a hiring freeze going on from March to September because they decided too late they're overstaffed vs. money. Also with draw downs overseas, employees returning have priority placement. They show up on the "Stopper List". Bottom line, it's tough when there's no room for you. It's bad for the organization as this ongoing situation is a morale killer and the good ones move on and the deadwood remains.
Bottom line, there's a lot of urban legend out there as to what Veterans Preference does. It's the classic results will vary.
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PO1 Glenn Boucher
CAPT Kevin Ball, thank you for the insight. I guess maybe I am taking the not getting hired too personally and that is in part because of the Wounded Warrior staff that is supposed to he assisting in the process.
I still fail to see how, as what happened to me with USCIS here in Los Angeles, CA. They told me, and I do not know why I was told this but I was told, that I was the only applicant to submit the writing sample, which was required. And then a few weeks later I am told that more qualified candidates were hired, it really got me highly irritated and I contacted USCIS HR and the directed me to OPM, who directed me around to several different staffers, all of who gave me the old "shipmate / bud you have to understand that over 1,000 veterans applied for that posting" and finally I was directed back to USCIS HR and was told that since I was not discriminated against then I just had to accept it.
I do understand that there is a system in place for hiring and that every employer should hire the best qualified candidates, no one wants to hire someone less qualified because they have to. I personally am beginning to feel that the point system is skewed to the good old boy network. I might be wrong but its frustrating to apply for a GS-5 position and with my resume and answering the questionnaire I am more than qualified but I cannot even get a simple call or email.
I still fail to see how, as what happened to me with USCIS here in Los Angeles, CA. They told me, and I do not know why I was told this but I was told, that I was the only applicant to submit the writing sample, which was required. And then a few weeks later I am told that more qualified candidates were hired, it really got me highly irritated and I contacted USCIS HR and the directed me to OPM, who directed me around to several different staffers, all of who gave me the old "shipmate / bud you have to understand that over 1,000 veterans applied for that posting" and finally I was directed back to USCIS HR and was told that since I was not discriminated against then I just had to accept it.
I do understand that there is a system in place for hiring and that every employer should hire the best qualified candidates, no one wants to hire someone less qualified because they have to. I personally am beginning to feel that the point system is skewed to the good old boy network. I might be wrong but its frustrating to apply for a GS-5 position and with my resume and answering the questionnaire I am more than qualified but I cannot even get a simple call or email.
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CAPT Kevin B.
Sorry you had the experience. A couple other items. First Veterans Preference applies to initial hiring only. It doesn't do anything for promotions, etc. Being a "reinstatement eligible" once you get the minimum time under your belt is a good goal. That way, if you leave civil service, you are ahead of new applicants typically later on.
Your story tells me something else was going on because the pieces don't fit. Rather than knee jerk that you were purposely discarded, it was far more likely you were told something wrong early. Happens all the time and people think the worse which is a rarity. There are typically lots of applicants for lower level GS because the pay is better than Burger King and your health insurance cost is much lower. There is typically a promotion path, various development programs, tuition assistance, etc. So going Federal has its advantages. Only the HR specialist who has the case really knows what went on. There isn't anyone up line that would have access to anything but some data, like number of applicants, etc. Also there's a series of preferences ahead of you, Stopper being the most annoying sometimes.
I mentioned in other posts that Mils typically don't prepare good resumes for USA Jobs. I used to conduct after hours tutoring in my office for folk at the TPU on their way out. About 1/2 actually take it on board and the other 1/2 refuse to give up their acronyms, nomenclature, etc. and somehow feel the "Vet" is an anointment vs. ointment. Remember a computer, not a human, processes the resume first. Most never get in front of eyeballs.
Your story tells me something else was going on because the pieces don't fit. Rather than knee jerk that you were purposely discarded, it was far more likely you were told something wrong early. Happens all the time and people think the worse which is a rarity. There are typically lots of applicants for lower level GS because the pay is better than Burger King and your health insurance cost is much lower. There is typically a promotion path, various development programs, tuition assistance, etc. So going Federal has its advantages. Only the HR specialist who has the case really knows what went on. There isn't anyone up line that would have access to anything but some data, like number of applicants, etc. Also there's a series of preferences ahead of you, Stopper being the most annoying sometimes.
I mentioned in other posts that Mils typically don't prepare good resumes for USA Jobs. I used to conduct after hours tutoring in my office for folk at the TPU on their way out. About 1/2 actually take it on board and the other 1/2 refuse to give up their acronyms, nomenclature, etc. and somehow feel the "Vet" is an anointment vs. ointment. Remember a computer, not a human, processes the resume first. Most never get in front of eyeballs.
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