Posted on Feb 2, 2018
SFC Fires Advisor
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I’m about to receive the lowest-rated NCOER (Qualified). I volunteered to leave my unit and go help stand up the 1st SFAB. Now that I’m here, waiting for my NCOER and about to drift beyond 2 months of unrated time, I’m told by my Rater that my 1SG and Senior Rater just aren’t over the fact I left the unit. If they’re not being objective and fair, who can I turn to? How do I fix this?
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Responses: 13
SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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It’s all about the counselings. If there is no counselings than it’s hard to bebute.
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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Rebute.
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CPO Jim Cerullo
CPO Jim Cerullo
>1 y
refute.
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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
That’s the word.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
Darned smell checker!
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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Let me say up front I'm not an expert on the Army NCO rating scheme; however, I lived through the Army Civilian Evaluation process and three different AF officer rating processes. Personnel rating systems are always subjective as long as people are involved. Raters should always be as objective as possible, but some just aren't. Opinions based on facts as the rater perceives them will always influence the ratings. If you can't prove some sort of discrimination or bias based on your membership in a protected class (check with your EO office to understand protected classes), you may be stuck. Even if you are in a protected class, you'll have to prove your rater based his or her rating on your membership in that class. Since the rating appears not to be a "referral" requiring a senior leader to sign off on some type of unsatisfactory rating, you may have no grounds for appeal. Read all the Army directives on the NCOER process to see if you have an appeal available--looks like SGM Bill Frazer knows about a rebuttal process. Can the people you supported at the 1st SFAB provide a supplemental rating form to your rater? If you did well in assisting them, that might help blunt the effect of the qualified rating.
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SGM Bill Frazer
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1st off you have to have the NCOER to rebut it. There is a procedure for doing so.2. If the 1SG is in the rating scheme, then you can go to the CSM to lit a fire under the 1SG to get the thing done. 3. Don't get hostile- if you can show that the NCOER is not on the up and up, it can be killed.
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SFC Fires Advisor
SFC (Join to see)
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If that’s the case, I’m guessing I’d need some kind of proof to even affect that situation. All I have is my recount of events, which will literally be my word vs. theirs.
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Is there anything that can be done about someone refusing to be objective in the rating process?
CSM Darieus ZaGara
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How were you aprized if the rating? Did you ask to speak to both on a phone con? In this instance your true recourse is to have an open dialog listening to their issues and dispelling if you can. They owe you this call at the very least as in the unit they would be obligated to sit you down for a coaching session.

I am also wondering why the 1SG is your eater, what were your duties prior to leaving the unit?
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SFC Fires Advisor
SFC (Join to see)
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He isn’t the Rater, he’s not even in my chain. However, he’s using his influence to make things more difficult. I attended both SFAS and SFAB Selection, the former of which I was ordered to stop the process (unlawful and in direct violation of the MILPER messages regarding SFAS), I was lied to from BDE on down (enlisted side, telling me I shouldn’t even try because I was fenced for a Kuwait rotation anyway, which they later told me they’d known was untrue). A SF Major and 1SG had to be dispatched to talk to Division in order to resolve the conflict. I was fired, my team was taken, i was called a coward and told that i was going to go be the BDE CSM’s “little computer bitch since you don’t want to deploy.” He’s been against me ever since.
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SFC Fires Advisor
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Far as the phone call, they’ve got lots of excuses being deployed to Kuwait. I’ll continue working that tho.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
CSM Darieus ZaGara
>1 y
All of what I stated still holds true. The rater, or at the very least the senior rater owes you a conversation as it relates to your rating. Actions prior to the rated period are not relevant to the current period. If you are not granted an audience I would contact the Division IG for further guidance. When you do you should curb your language and frustration. God Speed. Thank you for your service.
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CSM Richard StCyr
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There is an appeals process that you can use. However in order to appeal the NCOER you have to have it. You can also speak to the reviewer if there is a disconnect between how the rater and senior rater evaluate you. Is this a case of the rater rating you highly and the Senior rater rating you low or did the rater and Senior rater low ball you?
You can also see the CSM but they can't direct anyone to change anything unless its an admin error, formatting issue or other technical problem. They can however provide input to the BC if they are the reviewer and there are things that can be done.
Are you assigned to the SFAB or TDY from your unit. If assigned I'm not tracking on the non rated time. If TDY there is a paragraph in the reg about how extended TDY is handled for rating.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
Technically, the battalion sergeant major may not be able to order any changes, CSM Richard StCyr, but I'm having a hard time remembering any sergeant major that I ever served with who couldn't be *very* persuasive when motivated.
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SFC Fires Advisor
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I’m assigned to SFAB, but have not received my NCOER from my old unit. I’d buy the trying to save bullets if he had more guys, but he only has 2 SSGs, which in my mind tells me he’s deliberately trying to rate me poorly. I don’t currently have a supplementary reviewer, I need to add one. Thank you for the appeal process, that’s very informative!
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) - No problem , hope it helps.
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
1LT William Clardy - Roger, good point; I have a couple good stories but there are folks on RP who were on the receiving end that turned out later as they matured to be great leaders and don't need reminding of being "persuaded". sort of on the lines of "Go forth and sin no more".
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
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If you have already contacted them to remind them to finish the NCOER, go over their heads. This is one of the great uses of the NCO support chain. 1SG is in the rating scheme, then go to your CSM. If he fails to light a fire under your raters' asses, move on up to the next CSM. Eventually, you will get what you need. As far as unrated time goes, do you have a rating scheme set up at your new unit? As long as your previous raters date the NCOER correctly and your new raters date theirs correctly, you don't necessarily have unrated time... 2 months actually is not the worst wait that I've seen for an NCOER... I've been present for guys that actually signed two years worth of NCOERs at the same time... the system sucks...
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LT Brad McInnis
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Not sure how it works in the Army, but I will tell you my 2 cents from the Navy Officer side... Try and get it handled in your enlisted chain of command first. Talk to whoever your senior enlisted is (make sure to have all your ducks in a row, evidence, what you did, etc.) about the situation. Give them a chance to handle it. Most times that I saw these kinds of issues, The ratee hadn't tried to do anything to remedy it beforehand. In that case, when it came to me, I really didn't have a choice but to go with what my senior enlisted and the raters said. I certainly wasn't going to undercut them. Now, if I saw that the ratee had issues, and tried to remedy them, then it was a little different story. Best of luck to you!
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1SG Vet Technician
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I would request a meeting with my CSM using open door policy. Bring any supporting info, including previous NCOERS. especially if those established a pattern of good ratings up until now
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SSG Combat Engineer
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http://arba.army.pentagon.mil/unfavorable.html

You have to appeal it but make sure you have email correspondence requesting NCOER or anything related to your NCOER that way you have proof rather than your word vs theirs.
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SFC Fires Advisor
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Thanks everyone for the responses and assistance! I literally re-downloaded Rally Point specifically for this question, and I’m so glad I did! I’m setting up a meeting with my BN CSM and will go from there.
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