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Over the last 10-12 years, I can count on one hand the number of times I have not been "randomly" selected to participate in urinalysis. I once had a streak of 17 consecutive months of being randomly selected. Now this doesn't bother me because I know I am clean. But it does raise the question when you look around and every month out of the 10-12 guys selected, you see the same 4-5 guys
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Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 19
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If the UPL program is set up correctly, it should be random. Everyone's last 4 are input into a data bank, then the input the percentage to be tested and it spits out a list. I have seen one soldier come down on the list 4 times in a row and I have seen soldiers not make the list for several months. It all depends on the size of the unit and the percentage needed. My past unit did a 10% month with 2 months extra just in case. Another unit just does the entire unit all at once to get their 100% mark.
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Capt (Join to see)
Sort of like winning a coin flip 6 times out of 6?
Really, a random selection can seem to be anything but random. But, in this case, I believe efforts are made and reviewed to assure randomness.
Really, a random selection can seem to be anything but random. But, in this case, I believe efforts are made and reviewed to assure randomness.
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG Richard Reilly - 110 in the unit, they pick 10-12 each month and it always seems like 4-5 of the same guys are on the list every month. This was my 5th month in a row.
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LTC (Join to see)
I've been with this unit for 4 years. there's 4-5 guys who have been tested 30-35 times. and then there are 20+ who have never been tested in 4 years.
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I have wondered the same thing myself. My hunch, (a wild guess for sure) is that the system pulls randomly by alphabetical order, with a minimum number sample, or even by rank or grade. So, if there's only one major with the initial "B" in the database you're getting "randomly" picked every time. It's the only way I've been able to think of that explains how many times I've seen a guy get picked "randomly" 4 times in a row. The other explanation, is that there is a high minimum % that will get tested, which will raise the chances of an individual getting picked.
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LTC (Join to see) worst feeling in the world, walking out of barracks having just handled morning business, report for class (I was in SONAR "A" school at the time), and told we had to fill the cup. It was hours of drinking water, and waiting. I was one of the last to leave. Several were threatened with NJP if they didn't provide their sample. This was less random, and more, everyone in the barracks is filling the cup. It was the only time I ever got hit in a "random" test. I never worried about it because I was clean. I do think that if an individual raises suspicion, it raises their rate of being "Randomly" Selected.
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LTC (Join to see)
I actually wound up in the infirmary when I was at OBC. Same situation, I drank so much water trying to provide a sample that I unbalanced my electrolytes. The worst part was the lab rejected my sample because it was too much water and not enough pee, so I had to be retested. lol
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
LTC (Join to see) - That is just adding insult to injury. I don't care if they want to do urinalysis, but they need to hit people before they hit the head in the morning. I used to work in a private community correction facility in Colorado. We had to collect urine samples (incidentally, if you think providing a sample is bad, collecting the sample sucks the ass hair of a donkey) from our residents. We would wake them up at 5 in the morning, give them five minutes to report to the day room, and they could not leave the day room until a sample was provided. Usually it was a matter of five minutes. That would be a far more efficient way of collecting the samples. Have the proctor arrive early in the morning before reveille. Let those who are to provide be wakened by the watch, and let them sample up before morning urination occurs.
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SSG (Join to see)
One unit I was in would wait until the end of the day and pull all those selected from formation and send them to the upl then release the rest. They thought it would make you want to go quicker.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
SSG (Join to see) - I strongly suspect that sailors, soldiers, marines, and airmen have been trying to find ways to turn UA into day off since the beginning. I suspect officers, NCOs and, collectors have been trying to find ways to get the victims through expeditiously since the beginning. It is a dance. I can see that dismiss them and hold the selected as being thought of in that manner. I also see it is as flawed. You have someone who has been in the field all day, and not properly rehydrating themselves, it could be hours before they can provide a sample.
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I don't think it's completely random, but one data point (or a few) can never establish whether it is or not. I would go without a check for a year, then deploy to the Philippines or Thailand, and get checked twice in the next two months. LOL, maybe you just look suspect, LTC (Join to see) ! I would love to hear from someone who has managed the urinalysis system and can give us the truth.
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LTC (Join to see)
My theory has always been that the Army doesn't really want to catch anyone, they just want to be able to say they test for drug use. Therefore, if you piss clean, you go onto the "pick this guy" list. I know from my time as Company CO that if you ever have someone who comes up hot it is a major pain in the ass, especially if they are lower enlisted. It's not like you can just kick them out. You have to enroll them in the ASAP, set them up with counseling, test them monthly for 12 months, etc, etc, etc...
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SSG (Join to see)
I cannot say if they add or subtract people from the list, I just know how it is supposed to be set up, every unit or command or commander may have his/her own quirks they like to do.
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happened again: This weekend urinalysis at drill. List of names is called out at first formation and my name is not on the list. Everybody starts joking around that the list is not valid because my name is not on it. For some strange reason, the test is postponed until Sunday (didn't know you could do that once it was announced). The list of names is called at formation Sunday and it's the same list as before only my name is now on it. Anyone else think that is just a tiny bit suspicious and quite "unrandom"?
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At my last command before retirement, (in 1995) we literally pulled numbers (written on scrabble blocks) out of a hat. After three months of having my number pulled, I went to the XO's office and said, "I hear we are doing a random Golden Flow today, so I thought I'd report early". He laughed and asked, "are you an 8?" referring to the last digit of my SSN. I affirmed that I was and he pointed to his desk and showed that the "8" was already pulled from the hat before the selection was made. "So am I", he said, "I think all the 8s are clean for this quarter". Holding out his his cover, he ordered, "pick a number".
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I've had the streaks of getting hit every month for over a year straight. It happens. I've also had periods where I didn't get one for several years straight. In fact, my last one was summer 2011, and I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen.
The automated program, if a unit uses that, is supposed to draw the minimum monthly percentage, plus a buffer. It's also supposed to ensure nobody goes more than (I think) one year or so without one. Clearly it doesn't work all that well.
The automated program, if a unit uses that, is supposed to draw the minimum monthly percentage, plus a buffer. It's also supposed to ensure nobody goes more than (I think) one year or so without one. Clearly it doesn't work all that well.
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LTC (Join to see)
The only time I've gone for more than one month without being on the list in the last 10 years is when I was doing ILE Phase II in lieu of BA for 8 months.
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As a former company UPL and 1SG, I can tell you, if the program is properly managed it is random, in most cases. There are times when there is suspicion and a specific SSN will be selected or a 100% will be ordered by the Commander. Police your peers.
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LTC (Join to see) If the sample is truly random, you have the same chance each month of being selected, as your selection the previous month does not take you out of the population the following month.
Having a random selection streak of 17 straight months seems statistically improbable (I would say impossible, but I guess there is a very, very slim chance), unless you are in a very, very small population from which the random sample is drawn and, even then, is improbable.
I would look into how the program is being managed... Looks wrong to me.
Having a random selection streak of 17 straight months seems statistically improbable (I would say impossible, but I guess there is a very, very slim chance), unless you are in a very, very small population from which the random sample is drawn and, even then, is improbable.
I would look into how the program is being managed... Looks wrong to me.
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The program is random and being the watcher on many was not fun either. I was on a streak of 13 months straight. Mine was fun too because I had the privilege of bringing all my medication for them to list. and then having to go into the Commanders office and explaining what the job of a MRO (medical Review Officer) is every month.
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