Isn't it time for police forces to focus less on force and more on real policing = serve and protect?

Once upon a time, the community was willing to pay enough for officers to walk the beats, in the city. The automobile allowed the cities to save money, to hire less cops. But they were in cars.

Now, we want them to do "community policing" but also cover all the BS calls for service in a 30 square mile area. Can't be done! People (morons) call the cops for stuff like "My cat attacked me!" And they go to city council when the cops don't take care of their problems.

Yep! Most people do not know how to prioritize their own lives and cannot figure out how to handle the things they should. I call the police when I have to. When someone breaks into my truck or when they steel property. I do not call when my dog barks or when the cat farts.

SCPO Bowerman, kudos to you and your service in law enforcement. Agree that more people should participate in ride-along programs, and avoid Hollywood stereotypes about all kinds of people and professions, including that of our military. One thing learned in the military while working in nearly every branch of the Army and DOD is that ALL jobs are unique and important. Nothing wrong with pride in our skills, abilities and experience. Nearly everyone, at some time, can bring a fresh perspective to what we do if we can get past our own elite assumptions that they cannot. Territorial perspectives seem to be part of the issue in this debate; what we tend to see and believe that is limited by our personal beliefs and perspectives.

Is there any safe way to kick a door and take down armed bad guys, except for using "SWAT" tactics? Knock on the door, say please, and take 6 rounds in the gut?

I've had training on both sides (military and civilian), and don't know any.

I did not suggest NO does should be kicked, only that some genuine police work could greatly reduce the level of violence when not warranted. I recall a recent raid in Detroit a few months back where a retiree's house was raided, based on a CI's Statement. After breaking down this elderly make door he was given s copy of the warrant whine his house was being torn apart looking for marijuana. When the man pointed out the warrant described a man in his 30's selling marijuana from the front door, and that the warrant more accurately described his next door neighbor's house, he was told to shut up.

No pot was found in the man's home, and the police, following a complaint advised they were standing by their warrant and their actions, even though they found nothing, and no charges were filed.

I am only suggesting that a modicum of actual police work would have 1. Revealed which house they should properly have raided, and 2.... Perhaps the ACTUAL marijuana dealer could have been apprehended on his way to the grocery store, and avoided all the violenc. So, again I did not suggest there is NO place for SWAT raids, only that they have become far too prevalent a choice, and are often the result of the symptom of lazy police work. Regards

PO2 Skip Kirkwood - You should follow your gut (no pun intended). I can imagine you can bust down the door and get only 1 round in the gut or none at all. I can imagine all kinds of scenarios. I believe in a positive attitude and Faith. If you can shake-off that bad feeling may be someone else should take point or a different course of action should be taken.

Not sure that I understand your point, Sgt Nacanaynay. Are you suggesting that we substitute faith for body armor and good entry tactics?

This is all part of my frustration. I come from a very progressive police department with high hiring and retention standards and good pay. There is an extensive training program and an extensive continuing education program. We have an excellent internal affairs unit that monitors officer behavior. Of course we have bad apples too....at almost 1,000 personnel even if you had 1% that were problem children that would be 10 trouble makers. But we retrain, terminate or prosecute based on what the offender did. All this to say that when you and the news say police officers have a problem and a bad system I take offense. I don't have a problem nor does my agency so why am I/we lumped into the same category as an agency who's starting salary is just above $10 per hour? What kind of quality policing do you expect from someone who makes as much as the Circle K clerk? If you want quality you have to hire quality, train quality, retain quality, and continuously update and maintain that training. And that is expensive...and let's be honest most poor urban areas don't really want to foot the bill.

On the same hand most cops are doing the best they can with what they have. And it only takes one broadcast on national TV to make us all look bad. If the new balanced one bad story for one good story I wouldn't call it a war. But when 99% are doing the right thing but you only see the bad...and the inference is there is something wrong with cops then I will call it a media war.

I appreciate the response Sir. It is more thoughtful than others I've seen and you do present some points that if true paints a different picture. I just happen to think that by the nature of your civilian job, you should be held to higher standards. So that a police officer, while human and thus capable of error, should still be expected to perform differently than those not entrusted with their authority. At the end of the day it is the social contract we have with society that allows us to acquiesce to the authority given to those who enforce the laws of the city, state, nation, etc. So case in point Eric Casebolt. By his own account he allowed his emotions to get the better of him. Watching that video we see how dangerously that escalated with him drawing a weapon and before that going after the teenage girl because she mouthed off. By the very nature of the job, you'd agree that yours is public, it makes sense then to assume that every action of yours (used in a general term) is potential media fodder. When police officers allow emotions to get the better of their training they provide and feed into the narrative that has taken hold, a narrative that the bad cops allow to fester. So you bring up a good point about the low incidents of bad contacts but that is all that is needed. It is unrealistic to expect people to have the ability to self-detach and say "yes this CHP trooper straddled and beat to a bloody pulp that homeless woman but..." The visceral image of a person with state sanctioned authority to enforce the law and take life if need be, attacking someone who is defenseless is all people will focus on. To your last point. I understand your point Sir but it is incomplete. Police men/women represent the state, as such any indictment of their actions, though perpetrated by an individual Officer, is a commentary on the state. After all, officers enforce policies created by the state; Police misconduct is not limited to just white or black or suburban-raised, inner-city raised. Your comparing criticism to a specific race or group, then, is not the same. An act committed by an individual in group x is not the same indictment of the entire group as one that is committed by a Police Officer. Fair or not one would be seen as an individual among a group, whereas the other will be seen a part of the system.

Thanks for taking the time to read what I wrote and see things (at least temporarily) from my viewpoint.
You are absolutely right about officers being held to higher standards. Let me tell you a few stories of how this is beaten into us at my agency. We have our own Academy. At the Academy they will do things like leave spare change in the soda machine. A recruit will come along, buy his soda and get his change with some extra in there. If the recruit doesn't turn the change into the office with a memo saying he found this money he will be fired for theft (it is not his money and belongs either to the vendor or some other student). We had a student show up late. He said he had a new alarm clock. They drove him to his house to show them the new alarm. When they determined he was lying they fired him for untruthfulness. Integrity is everything in law enforcement. I could go on and on...we are held to a higher standard. I have seen officers disciplined, charged, and fired for things that if they were civilians would never even be addressed.
As for Eric Casebolt you are right about him with one exception. And this is a perfect example of how the media manipulates things. You referenced him drawing his weapon. I have seen many articles and comments about how he drew his weapon on a teenage girl in a bikini. But I have seen the video in a slow motion breakdown and it points out that he drew his weapon when several young males charged at him and one of the males put his left hand behind his back (like he was reaching for something). That is when he drew his weapon. The males ran and he re-holstered his weapon. He didn't draw his weapon on the girl. Did I agree with how he handled the situation? No. But I 100% support his drawing his weapon when he did based on what I saw.
And I have to disagree with you about it being unrealistic to expect people to be able to separate individual police officers from the actions of other police officers. I understand what you are saying...but I don't like being categorized for others actions. Just as you would not want to be characterized for the actions at Abu Gharib. Lets change the statement from one where I added race (which I think still applies) to one about professions. When a Catholic Priest molests a young boy we don't hold every priest in that same light. We understand that crime was committed by one individual and he should be punished and held accountable. Why is it different with police? Over the next week put yourself in my shoes every time you hear one of those news reports. Substitute race or another profession and see if it is a fair feeling.
That is not to say we may not need to look at the system as a whole and reconsider individual State Academies, or directed / mandated training, or minimum salaries or standards. I think all of those would help. And so would cameras. I have found that both parties tend to act more civilly when they are being recorded. (Although cameras open a whole host of other issues that I won't get into).

It seems like your agency has the right idea Sir, a mini application of the broken-windows theory. If only others were as exacting. Your point about Eric Casebolt seems to be a question of perception. Perhaps based on a specific experience your take could be the more correct assessment. I saw him trying to pull up his shorts. Not all Catholic priests or for that matter priests in general are child molestors. But unfortunately because of the few that have preyed on children there is a running joke of priests being molestors which again goes back to my point about perception. So I agree that it isn't an unfair expectation but that happens to be the reality, unfortunately. Your point about Abu Ghraib is well-taken but I think the military does a good job of weeding out some of those types. Those that make it in and commit abuses and/or atrocities are punished as befitting the crime (Manning, Bales, Sinclair etc). There isn't the automatic official defense of the alleged criminal that some police agencies do (Michael Slager incident, until the video surfaced, his Department issued an official statement saying it was done in self-defense). I do refrain from grouping all Officers together, I have many friends who are in LEA, state and federal, and I push back against attempts to paint them all as bad and as someone who is looking into Federal LEA myself it is essential that I do so. But also because of that fact, I make sure that I call attention to those few that by their very actions make the jobs that much harder for the vast majority of officers. And finally I agree wholeheartedly that the system needs to be revamped; recruiting, training etc. Body cameras are a temporary but useful backstop after all it does make both parties more civil. Stay safe out there Sir.

Yes, and a police person should not demand respect, they should earn it.

Sounds like you received a version of "the talk"

I learned that first hand be nice do what your asked and things can work.
But the officer needs to be respectful also.
I went off on one officer for a ticket and it turned into two.
A smart ass mouth is not the way to deal with them.
Pulled over the next time and was nice and the officer lighted up and we stood on the side of the road for 1hr and talked. So all-n-all just be nice>