Posted on Jun 11, 2015
Isn't it time for police forces to focus less on force and more on real policing = serve and protect?
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Where did "Officer Friendly" go? What happened to police walking beats and getting to know their community? Where did the SWAT mentality/Bullies with Badges come from? Modern training teaches police to be extremely assertive, to yell like drill sergeants and bark orders to civilians, then force them to comply. Is that part of the problem> What's your solution?
Police
Common sense
Justice
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 57
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Some cops have a strange notion of appropriate times to use deadly force like a man walking away, a street person getting stomped on and then shot. Imagine if their was a camera of all police killings and shootings.
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LTC (Join to see)
Imagine there was a camera on every military operation. You don't think the same thing happens in the stress of the moment? You don't think video is edited to make it look worse? Of the 670,000 sworn police officers who had contact with over 53,000,000 citizens there 26,000 complaints of excessive force. That's only .049% of police contacts. Only 8% of those complaints were sustained that's 2,080 sustained complains or .0039% You are 7x more likely to be murdered by another citizen than be the victim of excessive force by police. Lets talk about the medical malpractice! According to an article from the Journal of the American Medical Association, as many as 225,000 people die each year from medical malpractice. Where are the news stories and riots!
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Edgar Friendly was part of the criminal underground in the society portrayed in Demolition Man, not an officer. The police force was little better than unarmed community service officers and ill equipped to handle violent criminals in order to "protect & serve."
Community Policing is still alive and well...it is practiced in Orlando to Portland. What modern police training do you speak of SGM? As a training coordinator at one of the nations leading public safety academies, I can tell you to paint the profession with such a broad brush raises serious credibility concerns? Just as there are those that go beyond the scope of their authority in the military, so it is with our nation's police force. No agency is without blemish or mistakes. We must appreciate the ones that get it right and hold the bad apples accountable. To judge in the absence of accurate information and/or experience is irresponsible citizenship.
Community Policing is still alive and well...it is practiced in Orlando to Portland. What modern police training do you speak of SGM? As a training coordinator at one of the nations leading public safety academies, I can tell you to paint the profession with such a broad brush raises serious credibility concerns? Just as there are those that go beyond the scope of their authority in the military, so it is with our nation's police force. No agency is without blemish or mistakes. We must appreciate the ones that get it right and hold the bad apples accountable. To judge in the absence of accurate information and/or experience is irresponsible citizenship.
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There was a time long ago when there was a certain respect for law enforcement. With the younger generations today there is no respect shown to law enforcement or to anyone else for that matter. As a retired LEO, it was always the offender's attitude that dictated what response they got from me. I guess the solution would be to raise kids with both parents as proper guides, under one roof, teaching them to treat others as they want to be treated. Good place to start anyway. With all that being said, it is very easy to jump to conclusions especially if you have never done the job yourself.
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What happened to citizens respecting the police? You can talk about bad policing all you want but it is going to take both sides to get the relationship back on track.
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SGM (Join to see)
One should give respect to get respect; there is of course respect for the office/position. That doesn't last long if one does not live up to the trust, whether we are police or commanders.
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Cpl Trenton Davis
I agree, it just seems most of the disrespect is coming from h citizen side of things lately. There are definitely some over zealous officers out there for sure, but from what I can tell the majority are there to serve, protect and get along with the community.
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Back in the day of Community Policing the Cops actually got out of the car and walked the neighborhood. But the home-owners got tired of paying the necessary tax, so now 1-man cars are the rule. 1-man patrols are not the best tactical option!
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SGM (Join to see), Community policing is STILL at the forefront of many (if not most) department's agendas. However, we also live in a different world than before; one where walking the beat in some areas would be suicide. Gangs make up a huge portion of this problem and the old vision of a gang fight involving chains and knives has given way to fully automatic weapons and destructive devices.
I'm sorry, but I find the whole "shoot first, ask questions later" statement rather offensive and ignorant. The majority of LE involved shootings are done in self-defense. I've been in law enforcement in some way, shape, or form for 25 years and I will always swear by the mantra that it's better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6. At the end of the day, my job is to go home to my family and if that means taking a life in the process, so be it.
I'm sorry, but I find the whole "shoot first, ask questions later" statement rather offensive and ignorant. The majority of LE involved shootings are done in self-defense. I've been in law enforcement in some way, shape, or form for 25 years and I will always swear by the mantra that it's better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6. At the end of the day, my job is to go home to my family and if that means taking a life in the process, so be it.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
Spot on CDR (Join to see). I totally agree. IMO people that are making these inflammatory statements against our fellow LEOs are getting their limited information from the media and have never performed law enforcement and do not know what it is like doing the job.
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CDR (Join to see)
SGM Steve Wettstein, Exactly! And you and I have had it relatively easily (outside of combat, of course). Take the cop/deputy who's spent twenty years patrolling the worst streets in America; the cop/deputy who's put thousands of people in jail/prison, and add to that an all but outright war that some have declared against peace officers, and you have a mix for violence.
In the aftermath, groups of people will take thousands of hours to dissect a decision that an officer (in fear for his life or the life of others) had a mere fraction of a second to make. I'd like to see how these armchair critics would react when they feel threatened.
In the aftermath, groups of people will take thousands of hours to dissect a decision that an officer (in fear for his life or the life of others) had a mere fraction of a second to make. I'd like to see how these armchair critics would react when they feel threatened.
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I think its a two way street, I definitely feel police forces need to be more thoughtful but at the same time people need to work with the cops better, there has been alot of situations lately where the cops were clearly wrong, but what bought on the mentality that caused them to overreact, that mentality is society's fault.
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PO2 Skip Kirkwood
And in many cases, there is no clear "bright line" to tell which is which. Just like with the ROI - more grey than black and white!
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One could also ask, "Where did soldier friendly go?"
At the end of WWII, US troops were heroes to the civilian population - greeted with parades, wine and champaign by the French and Italian (and in may cases the German) civilians. We had done good - conquered the oppressor and restored peace. They walked around the territory without fear.
Today, our Soldiers and Marines have done good - conquered the oppressor and restored peace. Sadam no more. Instead of champaign, they get suicide bombers and snipers. They live in fortified bases, wear body armor everywhere, and don't dare get friendly with civilians. Hell, even the allied armies try to kill them (green on blue).
It's a different world with different threats - for our armed forces and for our police.
At the end of WWII, US troops were heroes to the civilian population - greeted with parades, wine and champaign by the French and Italian (and in may cases the German) civilians. We had done good - conquered the oppressor and restored peace. They walked around the territory without fear.
Today, our Soldiers and Marines have done good - conquered the oppressor and restored peace. Sadam no more. Instead of champaign, they get suicide bombers and snipers. They live in fortified bases, wear body armor everywhere, and don't dare get friendly with civilians. Hell, even the allied armies try to kill them (green on blue).
It's a different world with different threats - for our armed forces and for our police.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
Completely illogical comparison. Soldiers are by definition "warriors" from the cook to the infantrymen. That mind set is imbued because it is very likely that wherever they are deployed to, the population will be overtly (covertly if lucky) hostile. So the mind set of a Soldier, that is, the "warrior" mindset is neccessary. Police officers are not in a war zone. They need the 'guardian' mindset where their job is to guard society against the criminal element. The 'Us vs Them' mentality (i.e thin blue line) subconsciously incubates the warrior mentality in them where the average citizen is a potential enemy until proven different. You are comparing this to a Soldier who by the very hostile nature of their environment need to maintain a different posture??
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PO2 Skip Kirkwood
Not at all a completely illogical comparison. Troops today remained under siege after the battle was over. And soldiers are expected to contain their "warrior mentality" when in garrison, when training other troops, etc.
Today's LEOs find themselves in situations not much different from that. Murdered while sitting in cars; attacked by hostile crowds; engaged by criminals with the same AK rifles that their middle east cohorts use. Self-preservation requires the development of their own warrior mentality. And many of today's LEOs learned their warrior mentality in the US Armed Forces. As some of our soldiers have found out (I don't need to recite the cases), sometimes "good guys" get confused with bad guys, whether in a house in Sadr City or a house in San Diego.
It's a bad situation, mistakes will be made. But mostly, it is good people trying to do their best in very difficult situations.
Today's LEOs find themselves in situations not much different from that. Murdered while sitting in cars; attacked by hostile crowds; engaged by criminals with the same AK rifles that their middle east cohorts use. Self-preservation requires the development of their own warrior mentality. And many of today's LEOs learned their warrior mentality in the US Armed Forces. As some of our soldiers have found out (I don't need to recite the cases), sometimes "good guys" get confused with bad guys, whether in a house in Sadr City or a house in San Diego.
It's a bad situation, mistakes will be made. But mostly, it is good people trying to do their best in very difficult situations.
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Officer Friendly disappeared when the bad guys got heavily armed and declared war on the cops. It used to be a rule in the organized crime families that you did not shoot cops - then some new players arrived on the scene and the battle started. When bad guys showed up with AK-47s and body armor from head to toe (in the 1970s LA bank robberies), it was fight on. When regular people start treating the police with disdain, down the tubes it goes.
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Did you happen to see the news that the police in Baltimore were following the orders of the district attorney, the one who's charging them with illegal arrests, the one who wanted more arrests in the area where the incident occurred?
Did you watch the video of the incident in McKinley Texas? Did you see the cop go berserk after falling down while chasing the trespassers? Did you notice what the other cops did first? They went after the cop who was flailing at the kids...
Did you listen to PJTV host Scot Ott who attended the "protest meeting" in McKinley Texas and hear black residents defending the cops?
Yes, there are bad cops. There are plenty of good cops who need better training, but mostly better support from the communities they serve.
The cops don't need race baiters who grow rich throwing gas on the flames of civic unrest.
Now, how should I vote in this survey?
Did you watch the video of the incident in McKinley Texas? Did you see the cop go berserk after falling down while chasing the trespassers? Did you notice what the other cops did first? They went after the cop who was flailing at the kids...
Did you listen to PJTV host Scot Ott who attended the "protest meeting" in McKinley Texas and hear black residents defending the cops?
Yes, there are bad cops. There are plenty of good cops who need better training, but mostly better support from the communities they serve.
The cops don't need race baiters who grow rich throwing gas on the flames of civic unrest.
Now, how should I vote in this survey?
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Durish anyone who would paint all cops in a broad stroke as being bad clearly has an agenda to carry out. A lot of my good friends are in LEA, state and federal so I know first hand that there are good ones out there. Like you mentioned those two other cops on the scene with Eric Casebolt prevented a potentially explosive situation by rushing him when he unholstered his weapon and went after the kids. Those are the good cops, they know when a situation needs deescalation rather than escalation.
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