Posted on Mar 3, 2014
Its time to change Time in Service and Time in Grade requirements for PVT through SPC?
35.6K
51
30
3
3
0
I believe we need to remove the ability to enlist as anything other than a Private (PVT/E-1). The only exception would be for enlistees already holding an Associate's degree (PV2/E-2) or Bachelor's degree (PFC/E-3) and maybe a highly sought after language. I also think we should increase the time between automatic promotions between PVT - SPC.<div><br></div><div>I would suggest the following:</div><div>PVT -> PV2: 1 year TIG/TIS (9 mo. TIG/TIS with waiver)</div><div>PV2 -> PFC: 1 year TIG/ 2 years TIS (9 mo. TIG/18 mo. TIS) </div><div>PFC -> SPC: 1 year TIG/ 3 years TIS (9 mo. TIG/27 mo. TIS)</div><div><br></div><div>This would reduce personnel costs and create a lot more responsibility for the Specialists. Rank would have much more meaning and most initial entry soldiers would arrive to their first unit still a Private. It would allow a great deal more growth in experience. Currently in most units the majority of junior soldiers are Private First Classes and Specialists. This creates an environment were the majority of junior soldiers feel they are only one rank below Sergeants and I believe somewhat weakens/cheapens the rank.</div><div><br></div><div>Any thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
Promotions
Time in Service
Junior Enlisted
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
0
0
0
I would have to agree with SPC David Stephenson. Its all very dependent on the unit. While I was in Korea there was a lot of responsibility placed on me. As a E2 I was holding a delta position (E4 Position) only after a few months when I made E3 I was to moved to a hold position (E5 Postion) which made me 2nd in command of the track and my NCO was tasking me to conduct room checks in the morning and after work for my delta who was an E3 along with typing up and closing out monthly counseling. Do to taskings happening a lot of the time my chief was not around so I was attending leaders briefs in the mornings and after work and conducting the day to day work. So I myself accredit my knowledge and drive to the fact I was placed in charge and was look to carry out tasks given to me because I had to and there wasn't a NCO there to lead the way. So I believe more responsibility needs to be place upon lower enlisted not just TIG.
(0)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
I apologize for the horrible sentence structure, was in a hurry to leave my opinion.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Negative. The TIG/TIS structure still provides a time line for low performing Service Members an undeserved advancement while simultaneously keeping high performing Service Members from advancing. This system is why a majority of good quality Soldiers leave the Army. Promotions should be based on performance. Until the last year or so, Army Officers could pin Captain in 3 years. What's the justification for forcing Enlisted members to wait 3-4+ years for promotion to SGT when an Officer can make CPT in that time...? I've had a Soldier that we pinned E-5 with less than 3 years TIS and didn't recommend a promotion for some with more than 4-6 years TIS. You earn what you work hard for.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
What are your provisions for, let's say, a prior-service Marine Gunny who, after getting out of the Corps., decides after a year to enlist in the Army? Do you expect that kind of experience to be rewarded by enlisted as an E-1? Were the Time in Service and Time in Grade requirements sufficient for your advancement to SSG / E-6?
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
This would only work if we increased the pay scale, many of the SPC coming in the door would either Commission or not enter the Service. The pay would not match the personal expense of getting the degree. I don't think the current system cheapens the rank, I believe a cultural attitude of point chasing has cheapened the rank system. All day every day you hear people talking about what classes they need for points, how many hours of online courses they need, if a maxed pt test and marksmanship will help or not. I believe if we changed the promotion system from a point system to a skill test and knowledge system we'd have less issues, and we would be promoting more of the right people.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
My post is intended to be more of a thought piece than an absolute prescription. Basically, the premise is that the military is being called upon to find savings and cost cuts across the board. The NCO ranks have already had RCPs and TIG/TIS requirements made more stringent. Why should we not also do the same to the lower enlisted ranks? Especially since we only relaxed the requirements during the build up of the Army for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Appeals to emotion are quite simply rhetorical arguments, logical fallacies, that while understandable, do little to prove a position. Ideally, the military would continue to receive funding that increases to at least match inflation and supports a comfortable middle class career for all service members, but the unfortunate reality is that little political will exists to reduce other areas of the federal budget leaving the defense budget as the low lying fruit. Very little of the population has any real skin in the game where it concerns the military. This leaves a very thinly stretched military few recourses.
Appeals to emotion are quite simply rhetorical arguments, logical fallacies, that while understandable, do little to prove a position. Ideally, the military would continue to receive funding that increases to at least match inflation and supports a comfortable middle class career for all service members, but the unfortunate reality is that little political will exists to reduce other areas of the federal budget leaving the defense budget as the low lying fruit. Very little of the population has any real skin in the game where it concerns the military. This leaves a very thinly stretched military few recourses.
(0)
(0)
SPC Christopher Smith
I do not understand how your answer relates to my offered insight on the original topic. If we changed how peple got promoted maybe less people would worry about getting promoted and concentrate on understanding their jobs. Thus creating a system where people are sent up for promotion only when they have diminstrated the ability of fully understanding their position.
I was not attempting to provide an absolute answer, I was attempting to share a new way of possibly structuring the lower enlisted promotion system that agreed that junior enlisted personnel might benefit from staying in the lowwer ranks a little longer.
As far as my comment on SPC, the pay scale is easily found, I can't imagine too many people carrying a BA/BS taking a job for 1800 a month. Granted, yes, housing, and food might be provided. Those personnel have saved the military X amount of dollars not having to pay for their education (unless they are student loan repayment).
Overall, I'm just sharing different ideas that may or may not have been thought about.
I was not attempting to provide an absolute answer, I was attempting to share a new way of possibly structuring the lower enlisted promotion system that agreed that junior enlisted personnel might benefit from staying in the lowwer ranks a little longer.
As far as my comment on SPC, the pay scale is easily found, I can't imagine too many people carrying a BA/BS taking a job for 1800 a month. Granted, yes, housing, and food might be provided. Those personnel have saved the military X amount of dollars not having to pay for their education (unless they are student loan repayment).
Overall, I'm just sharing different ideas that may or may not have been thought about.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google