Posted on Sep 11, 2014
Lack of minority officers leading Army combat units? How do you respond to this article?
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WASHINGTON — Command of the Army's main combat units — its pipeline to top leadership — is virtually devoid of black officers, according to interviews, documents and data obtained by USA TODAY.
The lack of black officers who lead infantry, armor and field artillery battalions and brigades — there are no black colonels at the brigade level this year — threatens the Army's effectiveness, disconnects it from American society and deprives black officers of the principal route to top Army posts, according to officers and military sociologists. Fewer than 10 percent of the active-duty Army's officers are black compared with 18 percent of its enlisted men, according to the Army.
The problem is most acute in its main combat units: infantry, armor and artillery. In 2014, there was not a single black colonel among those 25 brigades, the Army's main fighting unit of about 4,000 soldiers. Brigades consist of three to four battalions of 800 to 1,000 soldiers led by lieutenant colonels. Just one of those 78 battalions is scheduled to be led by a black officer in 2015.
Leading combat units is an essential ticket to the Army's brass ring. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the Army's chief of staff, commanded artillery units; his predecessor, Gen. Martin Dempsey, led armored units, and is now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
"The issue exists. The leadership is aware of it," says Brig. Gen. Ronald Lewis, the Army's chief of public affairs. Lewis is a helicopter pilot who has commanded at the battalion and brigade levels and is African-American. "The leadership does have an action plan in place. And it's complicated."
Among the complications: expanding the pool of minority candidates qualified to be officers, and helping them choose the right military jobs they'll need to climb the ranks, Lewis says.
To be sure, there are black officers who have attained four stars. Gen. Lloyd Austin, an infantry officer, leads Central Command, arguably the military's most critical combatant command as it oversees military operations in the Middle East. Another four-star officer, Gen. Vincent Brooks, leads U.S. Army Pacific, and Gen. Dennis Via runs Army Materiel Command, its logistics operation.
The concern, however, is for Army's seed bed for four-star officers — the combat commands from which two-thirds of its generals are grown. They're unlikely to produce a diverse officer corps if candidates remain mostly white.
"It certainly is a problem for several reasons," says Col. Irving Smith, director of sociology at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. Smith is also an African-American infantry officer who has served in Afghanistan. "First we are a public institution. And as a public institution we certainly have more of a responsibility to our nation than a private company to reflect it. In order to maintain their trust and confidence, the people of America need to know that the Army is not only effective but representative of them."
Black officers at the top ranks of the brass show young minority officers what they can achieve. Their presence also signals to allies in emerging democracies like Afghanistan that inclusive leadership is important. Diverse leadership, research shows, is better able to solve complex problems such as those the Army confronted in Iraq and Afghanistan, Smith said.
"It comes down to effectiveness," Smith said. "Diversity and equal opportunity are important, but most people don't point out that it makes the Army more effective."
The Problem
The Army's — and the Pentagon's — main ground fighting force remains the Army's infantry, armor and artillery units, although aviation and engineering units are also considered combat arms. Many of their names have become familiar to the American public after more than a decade of war: The 101st Airborne Division; the 82nd Airborne Division; the 10th Mountain Division.
They share a proud history of tough fights and multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. They also share a lack of black leaders. In all, eight of 10 of the Army's fighting divisions do not have a black battalion commander in their combat units.
(For now, they also lack women. The military plans to open combat roles to women in 2016.)
USA TODAY obtained the Army's list of battalion and brigade commanders. Several officers familiar with the personnel on them identified the black officers, which the Army refused to do. The paper considered officers in infantry, armor and field artillery — the three main combat-arms branches.
The results: In 2014, there is not a single black commander among its 25 brigades; there were three black commanders in its 80 battalion openings.
In 2015, there will be two black commanders of combat brigades; and one black commander among 78 battalions openings.
"It's command. If you don't command at the (lieutenant colonel) level, you're not going to command at (the colonel level)," says Army Col. Ron Clark, an African-American infantry officer who has commanded platoon, company, battalion and brigade level. "If you don't command at the (colonel) level, you're not going to be a general officer."
Capt. Grancis Santana, 33, knows about the long odds he faces as an artillery officer hoping to become a colonel.
He found few black officers in his specialty — about two of 20 when he was a lieutenant, and about three of 30 when he made captain.
"It's not a good feeling when you're one of the few," Santana said. "There was no discrimination; there are just not a lot of people like you."
A key reason is the paucity of black officers graduated by the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, its ROTC programs and Officer Candidate School.
For instance, the newly minted officer classes of 2012 and 2013 in combat arms remained mostly white, according to data released by the Army. Of the 238 West Point graduates commissioned to be infantry officers in 2012, 199 were white; seven were black. At Officer Candidate School, which accepts qualified enlisted soldiers and graduates with four-year degrees, 66 received commissions as infantry officers — 55 were white, none was black. The figures remained nearly unchanged for 2013.
The downsizing of the Army is having a disproportional effect on African-American officers. From the pool of officers screened, almost 10 percent of eligible black majors are being dismissed from the Army compared with 5.6 percent of eligible white majors, USA TODAY reported in early August. The Army is cutting 550 majors and about 1,000 captains as the Army seeks to reduce its force to 490,000 soldiers by the end of 2015.
The Causes
Two forces seem to reinforce the lack of black officers in combat command. For decades, young black men have tended to choose other fields, including logistics. With fewer role models and mentors in combat specialties, those fields have been seen as less welcoming to African-American officers.
Irving Smith remembers his parents being "heartbroken" that he chose infantry.
"African Americans have historically used the armed forces as a means of social mobility," says Smith, who joined the infantry, has risen to the rank of colonel and now is professor and director of sociology at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. "That is certainly true for African Americans who have used the armed forces as a bridging opportunity (to new careers)."
Parents, pastors and coaches of young black men and women considering the Army often don't encourage them to join the combat specialties.
"Why would you go in the infantry?" Smith says of a common question. "Why would you want to run around in the woods and jump out of airplanes, things that have no connection to private businesses? Do transportation. Do logistics. That will provide you with transferable skills."
Developing marketable skills has been a key motivation for many African Americans, said David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland. That has often meant driving a truck, not a tank.
"There has been a trend among African Americans who do come into the military to gravitate to career fields that have transfer value — that pretty much excludes the combat arms," Segal said.
Clark, who now works at the Pentagon, wasn't encouraged initially to join the infantry. His father enlisted in 1964 and had an Army career in food service.
"He grew up in a small town in southern Louisiana in the middle of Jim Crow South," Clark says. "He was tired of having someone telling him where to sit on a bus, which water fountain to drink from and which bathroom he could use."
At age 11, the younger Clark remembers climbing on a tank when the family was stationed in Grafenwoehr, Germany. The U.S. invasion of Grenada in 1983 sealed the deal for him: He wanted to be infantryman.
"I wanted to be an Airborne Ranger in a tree," Clark says, "and my dad was not having it. He said, 'Nope, you are not going following my footsteps. I want you to go to college.'"
The compromise, after his father had him speak with an African-American brigade executive officer named Larry Ellis, was to enroll at West Point. Ellis went on to become a four-star general, and Clark graduated from the academy in 1988.
Clark and Irving remain exceptional cases.
The downsizing of the Army is having a disproportional effect on African-American officers. From the pool of officers screened, almost 10 percent of eligible black majors are being dismissed from the Army compared with 5.6 percent of eligible white majors, USA TODAY reported in early August. The Army is cutting 550 majors and about 1,000 captains as the Army seeks to reduce its force to 490,000 soldiers by the end of 2015.
The Army's Response
The problem has attracted attention at the Army's highest ranks. In March, Army Secretary John McHugh and Odierno, the chief of staff, issued a directive aimed at diversifying the leadership of its combat units.
USA TODAY obtained a copy of the memo, which notes that the Army historically has drawn the majority of its generals from combat fields, specifically "Infantry, Armor and Field Artillery." For at least two decades, however, young minority officers have selected those fields in the numbers necessary to produce enough generals.
"African Americans have the most limited preference in combat arms, followed by Hispanic and Asian Pacific officers," the memo states. While black officers make up 12 percent of Army officers in all competitive specialties, they make up just 7 percent of the Army's infantry, armor and artillery officers. For junior officers, that figure is lower, 6 percent.
Minority groups need a "critical mass" of about 15 percent to feel they have a voice, Smith says.
The Army's plan calls for enhanced recruiting and mentoring for minority officers, particularly in combat fields, tracking their progress and encouraging mentorship.
Mentors needn't be of the same race, Clark and Lewis say. Lewis noted that several of his closest mentors were white officers, including retired general Richard Cody, who retired as Army vice chief of staff. Cody advised him to spend time at the Army's National Training Center, in the California desert. It paid off, Lewis says.
"Everyone does not have to look like you," Lewis says. "You have to be able to receive mentorship, leadership. And you have to follow some of that. You may have to spend some time at a really hard place for a bit."
Byron Bagby, a retired African-American two-star artillery officer, applauds the Army for acknowledging the problem and taking steps to address it. He cautions progress will be slow. Bagby retired in 2011 from a top post with NATO in the Netherlands.
"We're not going to solve this tomorrow, or a year from now," Bagby says.
Smith has another suggestion for the Army. Ask an in-house expert: him.
The brass could also stop by his office for a chat, he says.
"I've never had anybody from the Department of the Army come to me. I'm a sociologist. I've studied these issues for six years."
The lack of black officers who lead infantry, armor and field artillery battalions and brigades — there are no black colonels at the brigade level this year — threatens the Army's effectiveness, disconnects it from American society and deprives black officers of the principal route to top Army posts, according to officers and military sociologists. Fewer than 10 percent of the active-duty Army's officers are black compared with 18 percent of its enlisted men, according to the Army.
The problem is most acute in its main combat units: infantry, armor and artillery. In 2014, there was not a single black colonel among those 25 brigades, the Army's main fighting unit of about 4,000 soldiers. Brigades consist of three to four battalions of 800 to 1,000 soldiers led by lieutenant colonels. Just one of those 78 battalions is scheduled to be led by a black officer in 2015.
Leading combat units is an essential ticket to the Army's brass ring. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the Army's chief of staff, commanded artillery units; his predecessor, Gen. Martin Dempsey, led armored units, and is now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
"The issue exists. The leadership is aware of it," says Brig. Gen. Ronald Lewis, the Army's chief of public affairs. Lewis is a helicopter pilot who has commanded at the battalion and brigade levels and is African-American. "The leadership does have an action plan in place. And it's complicated."
Among the complications: expanding the pool of minority candidates qualified to be officers, and helping them choose the right military jobs they'll need to climb the ranks, Lewis says.
To be sure, there are black officers who have attained four stars. Gen. Lloyd Austin, an infantry officer, leads Central Command, arguably the military's most critical combatant command as it oversees military operations in the Middle East. Another four-star officer, Gen. Vincent Brooks, leads U.S. Army Pacific, and Gen. Dennis Via runs Army Materiel Command, its logistics operation.
The concern, however, is for Army's seed bed for four-star officers — the combat commands from which two-thirds of its generals are grown. They're unlikely to produce a diverse officer corps if candidates remain mostly white.
"It certainly is a problem for several reasons," says Col. Irving Smith, director of sociology at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. Smith is also an African-American infantry officer who has served in Afghanistan. "First we are a public institution. And as a public institution we certainly have more of a responsibility to our nation than a private company to reflect it. In order to maintain their trust and confidence, the people of America need to know that the Army is not only effective but representative of them."
Black officers at the top ranks of the brass show young minority officers what they can achieve. Their presence also signals to allies in emerging democracies like Afghanistan that inclusive leadership is important. Diverse leadership, research shows, is better able to solve complex problems such as those the Army confronted in Iraq and Afghanistan, Smith said.
"It comes down to effectiveness," Smith said. "Diversity and equal opportunity are important, but most people don't point out that it makes the Army more effective."
The Problem
The Army's — and the Pentagon's — main ground fighting force remains the Army's infantry, armor and artillery units, although aviation and engineering units are also considered combat arms. Many of their names have become familiar to the American public after more than a decade of war: The 101st Airborne Division; the 82nd Airborne Division; the 10th Mountain Division.
They share a proud history of tough fights and multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. They also share a lack of black leaders. In all, eight of 10 of the Army's fighting divisions do not have a black battalion commander in their combat units.
(For now, they also lack women. The military plans to open combat roles to women in 2016.)
USA TODAY obtained the Army's list of battalion and brigade commanders. Several officers familiar with the personnel on them identified the black officers, which the Army refused to do. The paper considered officers in infantry, armor and field artillery — the three main combat-arms branches.
The results: In 2014, there is not a single black commander among its 25 brigades; there were three black commanders in its 80 battalion openings.
In 2015, there will be two black commanders of combat brigades; and one black commander among 78 battalions openings.
"It's command. If you don't command at the (lieutenant colonel) level, you're not going to command at (the colonel level)," says Army Col. Ron Clark, an African-American infantry officer who has commanded platoon, company, battalion and brigade level. "If you don't command at the (colonel) level, you're not going to be a general officer."
Capt. Grancis Santana, 33, knows about the long odds he faces as an artillery officer hoping to become a colonel.
He found few black officers in his specialty — about two of 20 when he was a lieutenant, and about three of 30 when he made captain.
"It's not a good feeling when you're one of the few," Santana said. "There was no discrimination; there are just not a lot of people like you."
A key reason is the paucity of black officers graduated by the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, its ROTC programs and Officer Candidate School.
For instance, the newly minted officer classes of 2012 and 2013 in combat arms remained mostly white, according to data released by the Army. Of the 238 West Point graduates commissioned to be infantry officers in 2012, 199 were white; seven were black. At Officer Candidate School, which accepts qualified enlisted soldiers and graduates with four-year degrees, 66 received commissions as infantry officers — 55 were white, none was black. The figures remained nearly unchanged for 2013.
The downsizing of the Army is having a disproportional effect on African-American officers. From the pool of officers screened, almost 10 percent of eligible black majors are being dismissed from the Army compared with 5.6 percent of eligible white majors, USA TODAY reported in early August. The Army is cutting 550 majors and about 1,000 captains as the Army seeks to reduce its force to 490,000 soldiers by the end of 2015.
The Causes
Two forces seem to reinforce the lack of black officers in combat command. For decades, young black men have tended to choose other fields, including logistics. With fewer role models and mentors in combat specialties, those fields have been seen as less welcoming to African-American officers.
Irving Smith remembers his parents being "heartbroken" that he chose infantry.
"African Americans have historically used the armed forces as a means of social mobility," says Smith, who joined the infantry, has risen to the rank of colonel and now is professor and director of sociology at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. "That is certainly true for African Americans who have used the armed forces as a bridging opportunity (to new careers)."
Parents, pastors and coaches of young black men and women considering the Army often don't encourage them to join the combat specialties.
"Why would you go in the infantry?" Smith says of a common question. "Why would you want to run around in the woods and jump out of airplanes, things that have no connection to private businesses? Do transportation. Do logistics. That will provide you with transferable skills."
Developing marketable skills has been a key motivation for many African Americans, said David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland. That has often meant driving a truck, not a tank.
"There has been a trend among African Americans who do come into the military to gravitate to career fields that have transfer value — that pretty much excludes the combat arms," Segal said.
Clark, who now works at the Pentagon, wasn't encouraged initially to join the infantry. His father enlisted in 1964 and had an Army career in food service.
"He grew up in a small town in southern Louisiana in the middle of Jim Crow South," Clark says. "He was tired of having someone telling him where to sit on a bus, which water fountain to drink from and which bathroom he could use."
At age 11, the younger Clark remembers climbing on a tank when the family was stationed in Grafenwoehr, Germany. The U.S. invasion of Grenada in 1983 sealed the deal for him: He wanted to be infantryman.
"I wanted to be an Airborne Ranger in a tree," Clark says, "and my dad was not having it. He said, 'Nope, you are not going following my footsteps. I want you to go to college.'"
The compromise, after his father had him speak with an African-American brigade executive officer named Larry Ellis, was to enroll at West Point. Ellis went on to become a four-star general, and Clark graduated from the academy in 1988.
Clark and Irving remain exceptional cases.
The downsizing of the Army is having a disproportional effect on African-American officers. From the pool of officers screened, almost 10 percent of eligible black majors are being dismissed from the Army compared with 5.6 percent of eligible white majors, USA TODAY reported in early August. The Army is cutting 550 majors and about 1,000 captains as the Army seeks to reduce its force to 490,000 soldiers by the end of 2015.
The Army's Response
The problem has attracted attention at the Army's highest ranks. In March, Army Secretary John McHugh and Odierno, the chief of staff, issued a directive aimed at diversifying the leadership of its combat units.
USA TODAY obtained a copy of the memo, which notes that the Army historically has drawn the majority of its generals from combat fields, specifically "Infantry, Armor and Field Artillery." For at least two decades, however, young minority officers have selected those fields in the numbers necessary to produce enough generals.
"African Americans have the most limited preference in combat arms, followed by Hispanic and Asian Pacific officers," the memo states. While black officers make up 12 percent of Army officers in all competitive specialties, they make up just 7 percent of the Army's infantry, armor and artillery officers. For junior officers, that figure is lower, 6 percent.
Minority groups need a "critical mass" of about 15 percent to feel they have a voice, Smith says.
The Army's plan calls for enhanced recruiting and mentoring for minority officers, particularly in combat fields, tracking their progress and encouraging mentorship.
Mentors needn't be of the same race, Clark and Lewis say. Lewis noted that several of his closest mentors were white officers, including retired general Richard Cody, who retired as Army vice chief of staff. Cody advised him to spend time at the Army's National Training Center, in the California desert. It paid off, Lewis says.
"Everyone does not have to look like you," Lewis says. "You have to be able to receive mentorship, leadership. And you have to follow some of that. You may have to spend some time at a really hard place for a bit."
Byron Bagby, a retired African-American two-star artillery officer, applauds the Army for acknowledging the problem and taking steps to address it. He cautions progress will be slow. Bagby retired in 2011 from a top post with NATO in the Netherlands.
"We're not going to solve this tomorrow, or a year from now," Bagby says.
Smith has another suggestion for the Army. Ask an in-house expert: him.
The brass could also stop by his office for a chat, he says.
"I've never had anybody from the Department of the Army come to me. I'm a sociologist. I've studied these issues for six years."
Officers
Diversity
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 104
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Upper leadership has been disconnected from the ranks for quite some time. I don't understand why it's such a big deal now.
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CPT (Join to see)
You are right. When there is not a war going on they have to focus on the politics of the peace time Army. If one General does something to promote diversity he will be hailed a hero and get another star.
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Capt Jeff S.
Promotions should be based on merit regardless of the race involved. It is disingenuous to deny qualified people promotions and substitute lesser qualified individuals to fufill quotas. EX: If blacks comprised 20% of force and 25% of leaders were black, I'd have no problem IFF they were the best qualified. Conversely, they should have no problem were the situation reversed. If you feel disenfranchised, then up your game and make yourself more competitive.
That may not be the PC answer, but it's colorblind and the most fair to everyone across the board.
That may not be the PC answer, but it's colorblind and the most fair to everyone across the board.
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Capt Jeff S.
And by the same token let's take a look at the makeup of our professional sports:
* Basketball (78% Black, 17% White, 4% Latino and 1% Asian in 2011)
* Football (66% Black, 30% White, 1% Latino, 1% Asian 2% Other/International as of 2012).
* Baseball ( 61% White, 8% Black, 28% Latino, 2% Asian, 1% Other as of 2013)
Should we be upset that our professional sports teams don't reflect our society and DEMAND Social Justice?!! I NEVER hear blacks complaining about this one, nor do you hear whites voicing their complaints loudly or using it as an excuse to beat people to death, attack the police, stage demonstrations, riot and loot.
Conversely do you hear a public outcry because a disproportionate amount of players are white on hockey teams? Why is that?
I think everyone, if they are honest with themselves, understands that our professional sports teams put the most talented people in the places where they will do best and that race is not a factor in making the selections. Winning is! And somehow 79% of whites were QB, and 2% CB's. Yet blacks complain that there aren't enough black QB's?!!
Should our military be any different? Isn't our goal to be the best because it is our job to win?!! Let's not blame the military because Blacks tend not to go to college, tend not to go into Infantry, and tend not to become Officers in the same percentages that whites do. Before we start clamoring for Social Justice perhaps we should introspect and examine ourselves... and ask ourselves as individuals, "Am I the best qualified for that position, and if not, what am I doing to change that?!!"
Source: Wikipedia and Tidesport.org http://www.tidesport.org/racialgenderreportcard.html
* Basketball (78% Black, 17% White, 4% Latino and 1% Asian in 2011)
* Football (66% Black, 30% White, 1% Latino, 1% Asian 2% Other/International as of 2012).
* Baseball ( 61% White, 8% Black, 28% Latino, 2% Asian, 1% Other as of 2013)
Should we be upset that our professional sports teams don't reflect our society and DEMAND Social Justice?!! I NEVER hear blacks complaining about this one, nor do you hear whites voicing their complaints loudly or using it as an excuse to beat people to death, attack the police, stage demonstrations, riot and loot.
Conversely do you hear a public outcry because a disproportionate amount of players are white on hockey teams? Why is that?
I think everyone, if they are honest with themselves, understands that our professional sports teams put the most talented people in the places where they will do best and that race is not a factor in making the selections. Winning is! And somehow 79% of whites were QB, and 2% CB's. Yet blacks complain that there aren't enough black QB's?!!
Should our military be any different? Isn't our goal to be the best because it is our job to win?!! Let's not blame the military because Blacks tend not to go to college, tend not to go into Infantry, and tend not to become Officers in the same percentages that whites do. Before we start clamoring for Social Justice perhaps we should introspect and examine ourselves... and ask ourselves as individuals, "Am I the best qualified for that position, and if not, what am I doing to change that?!!"
Source: Wikipedia and Tidesport.org http://www.tidesport.org/racialgenderreportcard.html
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This was my actual response SFC Drake. "Let's forget about best qualified... and figure out the ratio by race, and then apportion command slots solely based on the demographics. Who cares if the best qualified officers are leading our combat units. This is all about sharing and being fair. Enough with this crap. Do your best, and get the best jobs; simple. As a white guy, I could never complain I didn't get the command I wanted because I was white... In my 33 years I saw idiots, black and white get commands... heck, they probably thought the same of me. This is about best qualified, not race, color, creed, sex, national origin, or branch...
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Let's forget about best qualified... and figure out the ratio by race, and then apportion command slots solely based on the demographics. Who cares if the best qualified officers are leading our combat units. This is all about sharing and being fair. Enough with this crap. Do your best, and get the best jobs; simple. As a white guy, I could never complain I didn't get the command I wanted because I was white... In my 33 years I saw idiots, black and white get commands... heck, they probably thought the same of me. This is not about race, color, creed, national origin, sex, branch, or fairness... This is about who is best qualified to command, regardless of what they look like. Stop the insanity with White Privilege and minorities are not getting their fair share.... If equality is what we really wanted, it would not be about fairness, it would best qualified (period).
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CPT (Join to see)
Yup. I agree with COL Williams otherwise you know what's coming down the pipeline next? Affirmative action legislation in conjunction with commisions.
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I don't see this as such a dire issue, in reality the apparent lack of minority officers in charge of combat Mos or any MOS is not due to some EO drop. This seems to be a case of creating a problem where there isn't one. In the next change of command or so the numbers will flex like they always do.
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When I was in AIT I read an article saying that there were not enough African-Americans, in the officer Corps. My biggest issue with both of those articles is that, 1: We have the ability to choose our course in the Army, even if we don't know all of the options that exist that we are allowed to choose. 2: These types of articles make me not want to become an officer, even though I have a degree, and I am asked when I won't do it, but I never want my soldiers, or other leaders to look at me, and wonder if I made it to where I am based upon my own merits or if it was because the Army was trying to fill what was a perceived problem. I am where I am today in the Army because of my own hard work, and the belief from my leaders that I could make it. At no point do I ever want someone to think that I was handed something. I know that that may seem like a foolish reason to not want to be an Officer, but to me it is important. At no point have I ever felt that there was a sense of prejudice in the Army, and that could be that I've only been in for 4 years, but most of what I have seen has come from the outside in. I can't see why this is an issue for the Army, you can't give the soldiers a choice for what they want to do in the Army, and when they choose, it becomes a problem, that they didn't choose something else.
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Regardless of statistics, THANK GOD FOR AMERICA, STILL THE #1 LAND OF OPPORTUNITY. WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!
For black and white, and all 50 shades of gray
For black and white, and all 50 shades of gray
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PO1 (Join to see)
My point, SFC(P) (Join to see), few years ago we had CJCS Colin Powell, now POTUS, and in my 10 year tenure in the Navy, a handful oF black CO/XOs. Do you think anyone cared? NONE. Period. At least not about what shade of gray, but leadership style and decisions. So the road is paved and opportunities are there. Though you didn't choose your shade at birth, you have a choice in your military career
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see), you are exactly right, I wrote earlier, that one of the reasons that I don't want to even try for a commission is because of this article, and an article from 2011, that I read while I was in AIT about the Army not having enough minority officers, to me this meant that they will swell the Officer Corps with minorities, even if that wasn't the intent of the article. I don't think that race should play any type of role in the military. When I look at my soldiers, I don't think of them as whatever race they are, I think of them by the performance that they put forward, and whether I would want one of them watching my 6 if we were deployed together.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SFC(P) (Join to see), I can think of 2 reasons right off top of my head on why you should still apply. 1: money of course. Think about it: you're a sgt already assuming a somewhat leadership role. Now what's the difference between that and LT? A bit more leadership, more say, occasionally more stress, but hey, MORE RESPECT. Did I say more bling?
2. Of a far lesser relevance, but to those who are tunnel-visioned on 50 shades if gray Army, you can help diffuse the phenomenon, at least somewhat. But frankly in the end of it all do you think anyone really cares about your shade? NO!
2. Of a far lesser relevance, but to those who are tunnel-visioned on 50 shades if gray Army, you can help diffuse the phenomenon, at least somewhat. But frankly in the end of it all do you think anyone really cares about your shade? NO!
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see), While I can see your points, if I were to commission, I would want to stay in Intel anyway, so it would be a moot point.
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Lack of Officers because minority officers dont/didnt apply to those positions as well as holding a minority makeup of the overall force.
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SSgt (Join to see)
WO1 (Join to see) - I think that too many times people make our minds up for us. When that happens we lose the right to consider our choices. An example of encouragement is Neil DeGrasse Tyson . His mentor so to speak was Carl Sagan. And now Neil has the impetus and role model to follow. Given his own voice and his own style he has actually added to what the great Carl Sagan has done and for what Carl did was probably a template to teach what is out there and eschewing a lot of staid myths and urban legends.
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Seems the article was written to sell papers... that being said, as an enlisted soldier, the color of my leader's skin (when we were most effective) was generally brown/black or green/brown. My skin color doesn't make me a better leader and neither does my MBA or GPA. A leader's ability to lead is much more than that. Leaders in Army combat units tend to get shot at, maybe the minority officers are smarter than that... hmmm. As a military brat, I grew up "color blind". Folks not in the military can say what they want, but in a combat unit, race just isn't something we care about much.
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LTC Paul Labrador
"Leaders in Army combat units tend to get shot at, maybe the minority officers are smarter than that"
If that is true, then we're ALL smarter than the AF who actively tries to kill their officers...... ;o)
If that is true, then we're ALL smarter than the AF who actively tries to kill their officers...... ;o)
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
This is true, in the AF, we send our Officers in to combat while our Enlisted stay back in the AC with the internet and xbox!
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SSgt (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland MAJ Keith Young Well we weather forecasters give you all just enough correct forecasts to keep our jobs.. lol
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CPT (Join to see)
As I said in a different part of this thread, until we can have open an honest conversations, we cannot really hope to have equality.
As far as a genetic predisposition, maybe, but what I have found is that just because something is prevalent in one race/gender, doesn't mean it is totally absent in others, nor is it unable to be corrected. If you drop the race piece, figure out that the Soldiers are failing because of "Factor X," then you now have the ability to recognize Factor X in any trainee, not just that one population. The current "solution" of refusing to look at race/gender and just allowing the present exclusionary environment to persist makes no sense at all.
As far as a genetic predisposition, maybe, but what I have found is that just because something is prevalent in one race/gender, doesn't mean it is totally absent in others, nor is it unable to be corrected. If you drop the race piece, figure out that the Soldiers are failing because of "Factor X," then you now have the ability to recognize Factor X in any trainee, not just that one population. The current "solution" of refusing to look at race/gender and just allowing the present exclusionary environment to persist makes no sense at all.
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CPT (Join to see)
I do think the argument of a race may be predisposed is faulty. I have heard plenty of times that Asians are more intelligent then the other races. Maybe it's because they emphasis education so much. I have yet to meet anyone who just knew how to do stuff without going to school or studying it.
I think there was one guy in a book I read once that was born and taught some scholars of the time without any formal education. But it didn't turn out so well for him.
I think there was one guy in a book I read once that was born and taught some scholars of the time without any formal education. But it didn't turn out so well for him.
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I had a diatribe prepared, but it seems like the bulk of commentators have gone the common sense route, so consider me defused. It does my soul good to see people advocating for performance over pigmentation as the most important variable.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SFC Michael Hasbun You always do!!!! LOL. And proficiency is what matters. If you feel over your head then you probably are. In Tampa, I was working with a coffee business and the one black guy who was a genius in fixing things and a formal air traffic controller who hated that one employee got the job just because of pigmentation. Now seeing Willie worked hard and he felt slighted got me to thinking. One day, he and I were talking about how slow he was and he was talking about how fast he was in slow motion. Anyway, if you are proficient and teachable, go for it.
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