Posted on Jul 6, 2015
Leadership training as a Specialist - how to best practice it?
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Reason being is that over the past 8+ years in the military, I've always been taught to perform one rank above your current rank and build your leadership skills. Now that I am national guard(prior marine corps), all E5 and above assume you can delegate orders efficiently and safely. 95% of the time, this is not the case. New NCOs are power hungry and become jumble-minded when delegating tasks and highly tend to step on other NCOs toes because no one taught them how to be a leader. Being that I was an NCO before coming to the guard, I feel like all my effort is now in vain because quote(by an E8) "you do not possess the necessary knowledge or skill to task a soldier out because you are not a NCO." Anyone want to give insight on this?
Leadership
NCOES
NCOs
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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I would have told said E8 that "I was an NCO previously and I would respectively appreciate it it you would not pass judgement on what I am capable of until I am given a chance to do it"....pause a second and stare...then "Sergeant".
I might have even continued with "Since you are a Master Sergeant, I assume you know that one of the roles of NCO's is to mentor and train junior leaders. Please help me learn some of this skill and knowledge...just so I can learn, Sergeant, how would you task (said soldier) out."
But that is my style...I hate being challenged unnecessarily on my abilities
I might have even continued with "Since you are a Master Sergeant, I assume you know that one of the roles of NCO's is to mentor and train junior leaders. Please help me learn some of this skill and knowledge...just so I can learn, Sergeant, how would you task (said soldier) out."
But that is my style...I hate being challenged unnecessarily on my abilities
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There has been a downward spiral in the military as a whole on the importance of mentorship. I have implemented a 2 down / 1 up system in my unit. My senior NCOs are directly responsible for mentoring a Soldier 2 ranks junior to them. In turn this prepares junior personnel to operate 1 position higher than their current level. It has worked well; morale is at an all time high in the unit and there are several units implementing it now.
You were an NCO - you know what right looks like. Be the change in that unit.
You were an NCO - you know what right looks like. Be the change in that unit.
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In my experience I find that just working hard and performing at your best will help you get to a position with your first line leaders in which they will place your in situations that will help you practice your leadership skills. wether it be in charge of a detail or in a training enviroment in the role of a team leader,squad leader and so on. The more confidence your leadership has in you the more "practice" you'll get being the one who leads
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
That's the thing. All the time I see where it's "all the e4 and below, we need to get this done. Blah blah blah." They never go to a specialist and say this is the game plan, make sure it gets done in a safe and timely manner. Sgt schmuckatelli will your poc if you have any questions or need help.
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The key question is: Are you in charge of any Soldiers? If so then they are your responsibility and you can task them out. If you aren't in charge, all you have is general military authority.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
From what I understand, a specialist cannot hold a leadership position unless absolutely necessary or until the become a NCO.
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CW5 (Join to see)
Indeed. If you don't have enough NCOs, you put in a SPC. Sometimes you have enough NCOs but not the right MOSs and again a SPC does the job. We had PFCs back in 96-97 as team chiefs because of the SPC promotion freeze and we also had SGT boards that were not guaranteed (and promotion counseling was not mandatory either).
You also put the right person in the right position. I was a freshly promoted SSG platoon sergeant over two E-7s. They would have had the job if they hadn't lost it due to ineffectiveness (fired by 1SG). They both retired a few years after I left Korea.
You also put the right person in the right position. I was a freshly promoted SSG platoon sergeant over two E-7s. They would have had the job if they hadn't lost it due to ineffectiveness (fired by 1SG). They both retired a few years after I left Korea.
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My company has a guy who recently transferred over from the Corps. He told me (as I would imagine) it's hard for him to not be an NCO anymore. Hopefully this MSG doesn't know that you ARE an NCO whether you are wearing stripes or not, and isn't just rubbing it in your face. I'd ignore him as much as possible, and drive on; prove him wrong and earn your stripes!
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SSgt (Join to see)
It isn't where I am, but I'm in combat arms, and that does seem to make a difference. We have SPCs filling team leader slots all the time, and senior SPCs often get tasked out to be in charge of details. As long as it doesn't go to their head, (and sometimes even if it does) they're in charge. And if a soldier wants to cop an attitude because a SPC told him to do a task, he can do it because a SPC told him, or he can do it because an NCO told him, but if I have to reinforce it, it'll be a heck of a lot harder!
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SSG Melvin Nulph
Sorry to hear the crap you're going through. It wasn't like that all over the Army when I was in. Your NCO's in your NCO suport channel would have been smart enouph to know your prior history. If you would have been my soldier even as an SSG me and the E8 would be having a talk in any manner he chose. Sorry you have to deal with what you are. Hope he stays away so you can show the E5's how to be NCO's. Be easy on them but always do the right thing to make it a better place than when you got there. I took pride in all my members, even the ones that didn't like the military (at all).
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
Sgt Brainard, I think all NCOs need to have their seasoned juniors' backs like that. I served in Korea as a maintenance support team leader, and one of my soldiers had a disagreement with a battle buddy of mine. I had the support of my seniors to know that I could properly come to the aid of my colleague and got things back in order. I like when I can count on my leaders, my peers, and my subordinates.
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CPT (Join to see)
Specialists in the Army have an interesting role. Their authority rests in the amount of delegated authority given to them by their chain of command and general military authority. Combat arms usually use E-4's more effectively than other branches where they are generally nothing more than glorified privates. Understand that troop tasking normally is handled by NCO's in the Army. You are experienced as an NCO in the Marine Corps and that is a great asset to your unit. However, always check with an NCO before unilaterally tasking troops to avoid an issue. Cultures vary across the services and within the Guard. I'm not saying it is right, but after 25 years in the Army and Guard and in both Infantry and Support units, I've seen it all. Observe the culture of your unit and adapt.n if you don't like what you see, push it up the chain and make changes when and where you can.
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E-4 in the Army is expected to delegate and supervise in the absence of leadership, you may not necessarily "task out", but you are there to ensure the completion of the task.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
Right. I get that. It's just that I feel inferior because I am no longer an NCO and because of that, I don't have leadership skills. It's wrong how it's looked upon like that
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SSG Eric Eck
You shouldn't feel inferior because some E-8 told you that you lack experience or knowledge, he sounds like the type of person who would tell the same thing to an O-1 who went green to gold, just because he is currently an Lt., no matter what his previous rank was. Not to mention, he also sounds like a Master Sergeant who never had a diamond.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
A master sgt once told me always lead from the ranks. But stay within chain of command mission parameters. I always try to practice this and was once even put in charge of a group that included e5s when I was an e3
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I think what he's trying to say is that when they pin the stripes on you, a dove flies down from heaven and imparts special knowledge and power upon you which you cannot learn from a book. Wait, no .... That only happened to Jesus. As you were. Ask him to mentor you (which includes giving you responsibility and showing you how to improve)
Sounds like he's a condescending little prick who probably got ghost boarded
Sounds like he's a condescending little prick who probably got ghost boarded
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SGT (Join to see)
Hilarious! (I'm voting up your first paragraph, not the gratuitous insult to you tacked on at the end.)
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I did the same and as prior service Marine I used my knowlege in the class room enviroment to show the NCO's that I wasn't a boot SPC. That and I was lucky enough to have NCO's that were prior service also. Keep ur bearing and use your training to mentor younger troops and the true NCO's will recognize that . It will take a while but it will come.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
It didn't take long for me. It's been two years since I got into the guard. But remember how LCpls were taught to become leaders by the Cpls in the platoon, if at all? I'm just pointing out that this doesn't happen in the army and that's were leadership fails as a whole entity. Yeah, send them to WLC and put someone as acting 1SG over the class, but that teaches them how to be a senior leader, not a junior NCO. And we heard the term all the time, with rank comes knowledge. Well I don't see anyone teaching young soldiers leadership. It's the prior service guys like me that do it for the leaders when it's their job.
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
100% agreed. Forgive me, I wouldn't know what it is/was like in the corps, but having come active from the guard, it feels the same way.
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I would say you are in the wrong company/ battalion. In my company allows its Spc's to assume leadership positions and delegate other matters if that soldier is not a f*ck up. We as Spc are supposed to be the most knowledgable soldiers under under the nco's(sadly it doesn't always happen) so if the leadership is wise they will use their Spc to help manage and mentor the e-1's through e-3's so that when their time comes they will have the knowledge to do the same.
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SPC(P) (Join to see) Granted I am still in the process of learning and developing leadership skills myself, I can offer a few suggestions on how to learn. One method breaks learning leadership in to four categories: Study, Practice, Observe, Mentorship (SPOM). Even when you are not given the chance to practice leadership you can study the AR's and FM's and read books on leadership. You can watch both leaders you respect and the rest and compare and contrast their methods and habits. Finding a good mentor who knows your strengths and weakness and is in your corner is almost essential. At the very least it can make things more bearable.
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