Posted on Feb 22, 2016
Let's say that we criminalized stolen valor. What punishment would be appropriate?
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Discussions regarding stolen valor recur quite frequently on this forum, but they never seem to serve any purpose other than to allow participants to vent without reaching a conclusion. Many have asked if it should be criminalized. Sometimes discussions of this type can gain a little traction if you assume a given conclusion and then work backwards. So, let's play the game. Assume that Congress begin drafting the act and the legislators ask you for advice: What type of punishment would be appropriate. If we can name a reasonable punishment, one that fits the "crime", maybe it should be a criminal act. If we can't agree on one, maybe there is not crime and it's simply a despicable act of a person who should be either pitied or humiliated. Keep in mind that this game only works if we take it seriously...
Stolen Valor
Punishment
Law
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 19
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I'll go with Misdemeanor: Fine. And then all proceeds from the fine can go to support local veterans.
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Misdemeanor - Punishment should include community service with a focus to veterans' organizations (provided any veterans' organization would agree to work with 'em).
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Maj Neal Jackman
After successfully completing boot camp, Marine Corps boot camp. That means if they under perform they are recycled until they complete. They don't get to wear the device, they move on to 2 years community service serving the Veteran community. I think they would have a different perspective on life at that point.
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Extensive community service, particularly at a VA Hospital or retirement home. Mowing and maintaining the grounds at a National Cemetery, too.
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This piece of the uniform is wrong... Rip. That piece of the uniform is wrong... Rip. About an hour later you're naked. Too bad. Dress appropriately next time.... and pull your pants up! If we catch you again, we'll wash your uniform with you in it.
Unfortunately that would be called assault in this society. One can dream.
Unfortunately that would be called assault in this society. One can dream.
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CPT Jack Durish
There was also the tradition of painting a yellow stripe down the back of cowards. I suspect that many who practice stolen valor would fit this description
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At its base, "stolen valor" is telling a lie. Currently, the only time we criminalize lying is in a court proceeding in a court that has jurisdiction. In this situation, that would seem to be a military tribunal, but a civilian only comes under their jurisdiction under limited circumstances. Perhaps a law could be crafted that makes this a court martial offense, because the person makes a claim to prior military service by claiming the right to wear the awards.
For what reasons would this not apply to simply wearing a military uniform?
For what reasons would this not apply to simply wearing a military uniform?
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CPT Jack Durish
Interesting. You just inspired a thought. What if when we caught them the first time we obtained an injunction against future practice of wearing unearned awards. Then they could be held in contempt of court and suffer fines and/or incarceration.
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Unfortunately they have deemed it "freedom of speech" somehow. I'm not really sure how that works though. But I vote felony. they want the glory but they ain't got the guts to go through a simple basic training, and due at least the minimum service.
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CPT Jack Durish
I was surprised by the ruling that "stolen valor" was protected speech. There are limits on our First Amendment Rights which are consistent with free speech. For example, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. Also, with every right comes responsibility. Your rights end where my nose begins. Inasmuch as stolen valor is offensive to many and may easily lead to fraud, I don't see why we couldn't craft a constitutionally acceptable law criminalizing stolen valor.
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TSgt Melissa Post
CPT Jack Durish - yeah next thing you know they are going to consider other types of fraud like identity theft as freedom of speech. What bothers me is that while we sacrifice our freedoms for civilians they take that sacrifice and pay us back with this s#!+
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SSG Keith Cashion
As was stated by SrA Melissa Chiles - It is Freedom of Speech. If the guy wearing a Purple Heart on his uniform while testifying in open court can get away with it, so would everyone else. There is a law on the books that if broken, it is a fine of up to $1000 and a year in jail....guess what it isn't enforced. That is because being able to desecrate the United States Flag, is Freedom of Speech.
So it wouldn't matter if this could be punished or not...getting the politicians to pass and the LEO's to enforce, would never happen.
So it wouldn't matter if this could be punished or not...getting the politicians to pass and the LEO's to enforce, would never happen.
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maybe fines or community service....but if someone made immoral profit from their fakery that is something else....I spent 24 years in the military mostly on Airborne or Special Forces Units at Bragg or Thailand...most posers I find are just insecure people who need to out bull yer drinking stories.....sunday night at karaoke I was saying goodbye to a biker friend and I jokingly said "Well, If you were A green beret I'd kiss you on the ear' and he said nope wasn't at green beret I was a SEAL.... (noteing I never saw one patch alluding to any military on his leathers)I said really I didn't know that what team was ya on?? he had to stop for about 20 seconds to final say ahhhhh Team 7' And I knew ...from his mentallaty, his demeaner, his never speaking prior of Military service..i just knew it was BS......He wasn't a poser...just a big dummy who needed a little praise......sometimes you just got to let it go and shake yer head in amazement....
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Should be a fine along with community service specifically in a Veteran's organization, something like working at a Veteran's home or anything else to that affect. If someone were to repeatedly break that law then of course escalation to larger penalties as with any other crime.
I think it should be treated the same as impersonation of a police officer, medical provider, etc.
I think it should be treated the same as impersonation of a police officer, medical provider, etc.
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I think that the only way people are prosecuted is if they gain something of value. It should be tied in with sentencing for Fraud. In addition the Court should order the person to turn over all unearned uniforms, awards and phony documents.
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