LT's writing NCOERS How much training does officers get on NCOERS? I've seen a rise in LT's that have no idea about NCOER's. I have no problem helping them but it seems to me that they dont have the slightest idea.

LT's writing NCOERS | RallyPoint

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Posted 12 y ago

I know what the regulation states, I guess I should've been more clear about whom I was asking this question too, I was directing this to the officers due to the fact that I've seen a lot of 2LT and 1LT who did not have a clue about NCOERS.

Now for the NCO's that say they write the NCOER and give it to the LT you are not doing your duty mentoring your LT and for the comment about the 1SG rating PSG's I'm not sure which DA pam or AR you are reading but I have yet to see where it states in the regulation that the 1SG rates PSG.

The reason I posted this question is for the senior NCOs to see what the responses were from the officers when it come to an evaluation that will effect your career so lets help these officers..

AIRBORNE ATW!!!

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SGM (Join to see)

12 y

The sad fact is like some have said if they do receive training it is so early into their career they don't have a clue how to apply it. Another issue is the major differences between a NCOER and OER. 2 reports written completely different (not confusing at all - LOL).

You are 100% correct it is our job to train them. If they did receive training do you believe it was a worthwhile class given by a senior Officer or an NCO that has a vested interest in our system? Hell no - it was a 15 page powerpoint that was absolutely useless.

I wish more NCOs took it upon themselves to train their Officer raters instead of writing it themselves and leaving that Officer untrained. Just imagine the training power if every NCO trained their Officer how to properly counsel and write effective NCOERs. Give it 5-10 years and all of those Officers would be Commanders or higher and they would be forcing that knowledge down to the lowest level.

Kind of like a network marketing plan. We teach them then they go out and teach others. Before you know it the cycle is taking care of itself.

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SPC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

I ask because the battalion I'm in the bn cdr/csm makes the LTs write their psg ncoer and they have no clue where to start. Like I mentioned in the initial post I do help them but I didn't know if they recieved any training or classes about the ncoer. Hell from what I'm seeing is most junior NCOs don't understand the ncoer and some of them are filling psg or sfc positions and these are people that the young LTs need to ask these questions too.

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1SG Alan Bailey

12 y

Gentlemen, AR 623-205 and DA Pam 623-3; these will answer all your question, as 1Sg, I do not rate any PSGs, they are rated by thier PL and senior rated by the Battery Commander and reviewed by the Battalion Commander. Now the BN CSM and I both review and send back for corrections before anyone signs them. 24 years in the Army never heard of a 1SG rating a PSG not in the Artillery world anyway.

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1SG Steven Stankovich

12 y

I agree with you MSG Bailey, I did not rate any of my DET NCOICs, Course NCOICs, etc as a 1SG (MI Schoolhouse). All the EVALS came across my desk for review prior to being pushed up to BN so I could QC them, but I did not rate any of them. Their OICs were the raters, and up the scheme it went. the BN CSM QCd them prior to them going to the BC and the BDE CSM QCd them if they had to go before the BDE CDR.

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SFC (Join to see)

12 y

MSG Bailey and MSG Stankovich are correct. A 1SG does not rate anyone, he is the Senior enlisted advisor and there to ensure the NCOERs are doing IAW the regulations. A platoon Leader rates a PSG just like an OIC rates an NCOIC, and a Commander rates a 1SG/CSM. If you platoon leader does not know how, then its your responsibility to train them, and teach them how to write one. Its yours, and every NCO after yous career that's in their hands, teach them to do it right.

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MAJ (Join to see)

12 y

If the 1SG or CSM is writing NCOERs then you are removing the Check and Balance from the evaluation process. These Senior Enlisted Advisors are too important during the NCOER review process with their experience(s). Charging them with writing NCOERs will take away development from junior leaders who require the experience. Spreading the wealth only makes us stronger!

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CPT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

NCOER's aren't covered in Officer Training. So much of we actually end up doing isn't. However, your LT should be filling it out to the best of their capability and then getting with a mentor or another senior NCO that they trust to ensure that they are doing a proper job and the right thing for their NCO. If they are not…well no one is going to manage your career but you and then I would go ahead and give them an extremely thorough -1 with continuation sheets of solid bullets that they just have to plug and play. Besides they aren't going to see everything you do on a daily basis so thats just a best practice regardless of rank or position.

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SGM (Join to see)

Edited 11 y ago

Posted 11 y ago

SFC Ward...I also think there is too much emphasis on narratives unless the intent of the report card is a historical record for future generations. Otherwise you are either a Keeper or Catch and Release... I'd rather rate people:
1. Is physically fit according to standards
2. Meets or exceeds all other military standards,/technically and tactically proficient.
3. Is (OK) (Outstanding) (Beyond Expectations) in the _____ specialty.
4. a. Discharge/Retire. b. Retain. c. Promote d. Promote ahead of peers
5. Justification (no more than five lines) .
a. This soldier is the proverbial Beetle Bailey, with no future potential. DX now.
b. This soldier has potential; not ready for prime time.
c. This soldier is a leader now. Send to school/training.
d. This soldier deserves greater opportunities beyond schooling; the Army needs him/her now.

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SGM (Join to see)

Posted 11 y ago

While LTs need to learn such skills, just as any Sergeant, in my opinion, they should only give letter input until they have more experience; for example as a Captain or a Staff Sergeant.

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SGM (Join to see)

11 y

Capt Mueller, Chris..yes, however as someone who is a writer by trade and MOS, I encounter a vast majority of Americans who cannot write at all. It's luck of the draw at many levels of rank even in my own career field and here with thousands of scientists who are brilliant but have great difficulty with salient terms a promotion board might understand. So you are a rare fellow, at least in my experience. And agree that many an LT or NCO might "ruin" a career with poor evals, especially those who want to make the eval a counseling tool, rather than having done their job prior to the actual report card. I spend much of my time rewriting things for both officers and NCOs whom were good leaders in every other way, but not disciplined enough to avoid waiting until the last moment. Here, I even volunteer to rewrite and edit award noms for the same reasons. And our success rate is now much higher. That is less a reflection on me than it is the efforts made in the past.

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CPT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

I really wouldn’t consider what we
did in BOLC as training in regards to NCOERs. We breezed through the topic in BOLC.
The only thing they really emphasized in class was quantifying bullets. I had
no idea what I was doing when I had to counsel my first NCO and write my first
NCOER but fortunately I had great mentors (NCOs) who trained and developed me
in the correct process. With their guidance, I learned what a DA 2166-8-1 (NCO
Counseling and Support Form) was and I also learned the importance of giving
your NCO an initial counseling as well as their quarterly counselings. It also
makes writing NCOERs easier since everything is already on paper.

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MAJ Gregory Youngblood

Posted 12 y ago

I received very minimal "training" during BOLC (previously OBC) that consisted of an afternoon of powerpoint slides. Like most things, you learn on the job. I did my first one last Fall for for my PSG, it was due to BN in December and I made sure to start working on it in September. I talked to my PSG, other PL's, the XO, the 1SG, and the CDR, to make sure I got their guidance on what bullet points were good to use, and how things needed to be phrased/worded as well as how things are ordered, and what good things to emphasize. I also talked with my PSG's previous platoon leader, to get copies of his previous NCOER's. However, with that you have to be careful that their opinion doesn't influence your own. Your relationship with the rated soldier may not be the same as their previous rater, and they may have developed between rating periods. I used the previous NCOER essentially to grab the Duty Description. Other than that, there are multiple excellent books and websites giving examples of bullet points that are good to work off of (DO NOT COPY WORD FOR WORD - MAKE IT GENUINE). It's a learning experience, but any leader worth their weight in salt will put some time and dedication into developing a good NCOER, your PSG works hard for you, you should damn sure work hard for them.

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LT's writing NCOERS

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