Posted on Jul 10, 2015
Mass shooting statistics prompts gun control, tragic, but overreaction?
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Mass shootings are horribly tragic with out a doubt, and rightfully lead to a discussion of how they could be prevented, but I was surprised how few mass shootings there actually are (15), and even more surprised that almost half have occurred during the current administration (7).
I'm not trying to blame the administration, but putting forth the theory that gun control debate might have the undesired effect of inflated gun ownership by untrained and/or unstable people, and further result in an increase in mass shootings.
Thoughts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
I'm not trying to blame the administration, but putting forth the theory that gun control debate might have the undesired effect of inflated gun ownership by untrained and/or unstable people, and further result in an increase in mass shootings.
Thoughts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
Gun Control
Politics
Constitution
Crime
Law
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Check out how many have occurred in "Gun Free" zones. I think it is 14 of the 15.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
That may be a function of gun-free zones typically being places of high capacity rather than low risk. Malls and schools have lots of people and hitting them fits well within the statements these assholes want to make. How much them being soft targets plays into it is unknown since I don't think many had reasons other than them being easy listed in their writings.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
A bit of both, for sure. I think its a bit of a chicken and the egg problem though. No guns can make it go on longer, but I'm not entirely sure it would have stopped the attackers since their targets are usually chosen for ideological or personal reasons.
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PO1 Dustin Adams
Supposedly the shooter in SC was going to shoot up the College of Charleston but was deterred because of armed security.
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SPC David Hannaman One mass shooting is too many, so we need to have the discussion of how they can be prevented. If the answer in someone's head is I want to plan, coordinate and conduct a mass shooting, this goes to the state of mental health coverage. Most mass shooting are mental health cases first. In the rare situation when the the mass shooting is a symptom of a depraved heart and those who advocate for gun control say, 'but for' the gun these shootings would not occur.
I support the 2nd Amendment and DO NOT want to see lawful gun owners lose rights, but do believe we need to look hard at preventable violence and be willing to review mental health laws and associated gun ownership.
The Gun control crowd overreaches after each mass shooting event to restrict lawful gun ownership. I find the political theater and commentary disingenuous.
I support the 2nd Amendment and DO NOT want to see lawful gun owners lose rights, but do believe we need to look hard at preventable violence and be willing to review mental health laws and associated gun ownership.
The Gun control crowd overreaches after each mass shooting event to restrict lawful gun ownership. I find the political theater and commentary disingenuous.
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Yes it is, I have noticed that Americans love to run around all day long like little minions until something tragic happens, then all these monsters come out of no where and all have ideas as to how to stop such an incident...if they have such grand notions then why in the bloody hell dont they come forth sooner and actually prevent it in the 1st place? To date I have yet to see ANYONE come up with a feasible action to stop most anything. A criminal or mentally challenged person doesnt have a play book to study, they dont follow laws. To me the only recourse would be to have more citizens armed and make it more difficult for a criminal or nut job to get as far as they do. Proper training instead of bridge club or Bingo, if your gonna throw your time away , might as well do something worthwhile that could save a life... Just my 2 cents.
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Here are my thoughts on the subject. http://ewross.com/the_lesson_we_should_learn_from_the_norway_shootings.htm
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COL Ted Mc
LTC Ed Ross - Colonel; The two most significant paragraphs (in my opinion) are:
"Comparing the relationship between gun-control laws and gun-related homicide rates in Norway and the United States is comparing apples and oranges. There are many cultural and social reasons other than gun--control laws that likely account for the difference gun-related-homicide rates between Norway and the United States."
and
"Given that mass shooters will tend to avoid areas where armed police and security guards are present and the increasing likelihood that terrorists will use firearms as they did in the 2008 Mumbai, India, attack and at Fort Hood, Texas, concealed-carry laws only make good sense. We should focus on ensuring that law-abiding citizens who chose to own and carry a firearm store and handle them safely; and, should the occasion arise, they know how to use them effectively.".
In fact, solving the first riddle may well negate the necessity for the second action.
"Comparing the relationship between gun-control laws and gun-related homicide rates in Norway and the United States is comparing apples and oranges. There are many cultural and social reasons other than gun--control laws that likely account for the difference gun-related-homicide rates between Norway and the United States."
and
"Given that mass shooters will tend to avoid areas where armed police and security guards are present and the increasing likelihood that terrorists will use firearms as they did in the 2008 Mumbai, India, attack and at Fort Hood, Texas, concealed-carry laws only make good sense. We should focus on ensuring that law-abiding citizens who chose to own and carry a firearm store and handle them safely; and, should the occasion arise, they know how to use them effectively.".
In fact, solving the first riddle may well negate the necessity for the second action.
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The gun control debate has little to do with it. There are two problems: The AWB ending in 2004 increased the availability and decreased the costs of certain types of firearms immensely and the internet/news cycle making these guys famous. Mass killings have entered the popular conscious and the public eats that crap up, which in turn encourages mass killings and increases the concerns around gun control.
Want to reduce mass killings? Stop identifying the killers and spend more time talking about the victims.
Want to reduce mass killings? Stop identifying the killers and spend more time talking about the victims.
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SPC David Hannaman
Except that the AWB ended in 2004... five years before the current administration. Around here it ended and nobody noticed (I certainly didn't), but when talk of gun control started up I know I thought to myself "Well, I'd better get one before I can't." That 1994 increase on the chart seems to indicate that as well.
I chose an AR-15 simply because of my time in the Army... I'm very familiar with how it works. I actually would have preferred something in a different caliber. I also paid substantially more for it than it's current market value.
As I got back into shooting (happened to coincide with an my son getting to a maturity level were he could responsibly learn how to shoot), I met a lot of "new" shooters that had the same mindset, "better get one before I can't" but without the benefit of training that I have.
If this was a car lot we would recognize the "this baby might not last much longer" sales tactic right away.
So back to my original point... there's no doubt (in my mind anyway) that politicians pushing gun control spurred gun sales, is increased gun homicide just a case of cause and effect?
I chose an AR-15 simply because of my time in the Army... I'm very familiar with how it works. I actually would have preferred something in a different caliber. I also paid substantially more for it than it's current market value.
As I got back into shooting (happened to coincide with an my son getting to a maturity level were he could responsibly learn how to shoot), I met a lot of "new" shooters that had the same mindset, "better get one before I can't" but without the benefit of training that I have.
If this was a car lot we would recognize the "this baby might not last much longer" sales tactic right away.
So back to my original point... there's no doubt (in my mind anyway) that politicians pushing gun control spurred gun sales, is increased gun homicide just a case of cause and effect?
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SGT Jeremiah B.
SPC David Hannaman - Not sure you want to make that argument. Essentially, you're saying that an increase in gun availability has led to an increase in gun violence. The logical response would then be - a decrease in gun availability would lead to a decrease in gun violence.
As for the chart, the sharp upward trend really began in 2001. The large spike occurred after Sandy Hook then dropped off precipitously when the nation collectively shrugged and decided that 20 six year olds really was an alright price to pay for not violating any of our ideological principles even just a little.
Overall, I would attribute the upward trend, at least in part, to the end of the AWB and the end of America's sense of security with 9/11. Talk of gun control surely had something to do with it, but at the end of the day, if you try to pick one thing, you're going to be wrong. Social trends are never that simple.
As for the chart, the sharp upward trend really began in 2001. The large spike occurred after Sandy Hook then dropped off precipitously when the nation collectively shrugged and decided that 20 six year olds really was an alright price to pay for not violating any of our ideological principles even just a little.
Overall, I would attribute the upward trend, at least in part, to the end of the AWB and the end of America's sense of security with 9/11. Talk of gun control surely had something to do with it, but at the end of the day, if you try to pick one thing, you're going to be wrong. Social trends are never that simple.
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SPC David Hannaman
"Essentially, you're saying that an increase in gun availability has led to an increase in gun violence."
Close... I'm saying that the increase in irresponsible (and untrained) gun ownership might have a correlation to an increase in gun violence, but being constantly inundated with the gun debate is a contributing factor to people with a preexisting mental condition taking action with a gun.
Close... I'm saying that the increase in irresponsible (and untrained) gun ownership might have a correlation to an increase in gun violence, but being constantly inundated with the gun debate is a contributing factor to people with a preexisting mental condition taking action with a gun.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
SPC David Hannaman - Doubtful. The gun debate, which none have listed in their rather extensive manifestos, somehow being responsible for the event is a bit of a stretch. These people do not care about the gun debate. With the exception of maybe McVeigh, who used a bomb!, the complaints are with specific people, companies or how they've been treated in society.
If there's anything contributing on the government side, it's the political unwillingness to put tax money into a comprehensive mental health system. Parents of violent kids are largely on their own.
If there's anything contributing on the government side, it's the political unwillingness to put tax money into a comprehensive mental health system. Parents of violent kids are largely on their own.
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Yes, I definitely think it's an overreaction. Think of it this way: Almost every mass shooting has been perpetrated by *one guy*. Lets say we enact gun control on the scale of Australia. Does that stop that *one guy* from getting his hands on a gun? Not likely.
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MSgt (Join to see)
You don't even need a gun. China has mass knife attacks, and that German Pilot flew an Airbus into a mountainside. Gun Control does not stop Psychopaths!
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SGT Richard H.
MSgt (Join to see) - How about that Columbine kid? He would have wrought a whole lot more destruction if he would have spent about 3 more minutes on Google figuring out how to build a detonating device for the propane tanks instead of planning to shoot them.
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SPC David Hannaman - Spec; "Gun Control" won't STOP mass murderers, it will simply make it harder for them to acquire the weapons that they want to use. "Harder" is not the same thing as "impossible".
Until you have a society which doesn't "empower" criminals by blasting their exploits all over the map, doesn't refer to "murder" as "execution", and starts referring to the mass murderers as "demented creeps" (or similar), you are always going to have them around. [NOTE:- Even then you are going to have them around - you just aren't going to have quite so many of them and the number of "copycats" will drop precipitously.]
Until you have a society which doesn't "empower" criminals by blasting their exploits all over the map, doesn't refer to "murder" as "execution", and starts referring to the mass murderers as "demented creeps" (or similar), you are always going to have them around. [NOTE:- Even then you are going to have them around - you just aren't going to have quite so many of them and the number of "copycats" will drop precipitously.]
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MSgt (Join to see)
You don't even need a gun. China has mass knife attacks that include multiple school massacres!
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This would be a good topic of discussion w/ LTC Dave Grossman. I had the privilege of attending two of his speeches - once in Police Academy, & again as a civilian police officer. His book On Killing is remarkable in its study of the modern mass murderer.
I remember studying Columbine in depth. I remember watching it unfold in the field house out in the ICBM fields of Minot. I kept thinking, "why in the HELL are the officer just standing out there?!? Rush the damn building and get them!!!" As soon as they did, those monsters killed themselves.
I remember studying Columbine in depth. I remember watching it unfold in the field house out in the ICBM fields of Minot. I kept thinking, "why in the HELL are the officer just standing out there?!? Rush the damn building and get them!!!" As soon as they did, those monsters killed themselves.
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8/3/19
The answer is uniform armed security guard everywhere will slow down or stop the
damage and killing being done until law enforcement arrive.
now they will be identified by having on a uniform. (no confusion).
teachers are not getting paid enough to teach, don't give them another job that will distract from their main purpose, what if the teacher is injured and a student picks up the weapon and law enforcement arrives, that kid is dead. especially if the child is black or Latino.
such a simple salutation when we have many trained and qualified ex-military.
that will always love this country and would defend it at home as well as abroad.
watch videos on Youtube at any mall in the Philippines and tell me what you see.
Banks, mc Donald's, 711, hospitals and schools, hotels and restaurants.
it is a 3rd world country? they are doing much better than us in this department.
i am a Vietnam combat veteran a former marine sergeant E-5.
This is something to do while waiting on the politicians to do the right thing.
with the world changing we had recruiting stations all over the country with trained soldiers with no weapons. try having police stations with no weapons.
The answer is uniform armed security guard everywhere will slow down or stop the
damage and killing being done until law enforcement arrive.
now they will be identified by having on a uniform. (no confusion).
teachers are not getting paid enough to teach, don't give them another job that will distract from their main purpose, what if the teacher is injured and a student picks up the weapon and law enforcement arrives, that kid is dead. especially if the child is black or Latino.
such a simple salutation when we have many trained and qualified ex-military.
that will always love this country and would defend it at home as well as abroad.
watch videos on Youtube at any mall in the Philippines and tell me what you see.
Banks, mc Donald's, 711, hospitals and schools, hotels and restaurants.
it is a 3rd world country? they are doing much better than us in this department.
i am a Vietnam combat veteran a former marine sergeant E-5.
This is something to do while waiting on the politicians to do the right thing.
with the world changing we had recruiting stations all over the country with trained soldiers with no weapons. try having police stations with no weapons.
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