Posted on Mar 31, 2023
Shouldn’t a soldier who has had heart surgery within the last year and is still having complications have no problem exiting the ranks?
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What are your experiences with the MEDBOARD process. I have a soldier under my leadership who seems to be having an issue getting his initiated. He has had heart surgery within the last year and is still having complications. Shouldn’t this Soldier have no problem exiting the the ranks?
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Medical
Medical
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
I am unclear what you mean by, "Shouldn’t this Soldier have no problem exiting the the ranks?". You mean separate from the Army? Be put out on a medical discharge?
I recently mentioned this on another thread. There are four instances that will trigger entry into the IDES process (i.e., MEB, PEB, etc).
• The medical side will refer you to a MEBD if they can't help you anymore, you're 'broken' and may not meet medical retention standards.
• If you've been given a P3 or P4 profile, you'll trigger a MMRB to determine if you can still meet the standards of your MOS
• Your commander can kick you over to medical for an evaluation (which may lead to MEBD as in the first case) if they don't think you can do your MOS related duties
• HQDA directed action
Your Soldier likely falls into the first or second category. If the cardiologist has been working with him and in his view they have reached "the limit of military medicine to help" and he views your troop as not being able to meet the minimum standards of medical fitness to remain in the military, then they'll refer him to be medically evaluated.
If your Soldier cannot do something fully based on his PULHES factors* (in this case, likely 'P' for Physical capacity or stamina or possibly 'U' for his thoracic region) and your troop is rated as a '3' or '4', then it will automatically trigger a MMRB.
If he's getting nowhere with the medical side and your unit commander truly believes he cannot function, then your unit commander can do a command referral to the medical side and force an examination and possible push to a MEBD.
However, all this is assume that the Soldier is really 'broke'. Having lasting issues from surgery that do not severely limit his ability to perform the functions of his MOS or general abilities as a Soldier are not issues that would lead to a medial discharge.
Everything comes down to the standards of medical fitness and if the condition has been deemed permanent or not.
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* '3' designation for PULHES factors - A profile with a numerical designator of 3 in one or more factors indicates that the Soldier has one or more medical conditions or physical defects that may require significant limitations to the Soldier’s activities. Limitations are considered significant if they affect the Soldier’s deployability, ability to perform basic Soldier duties (DA Form 3349, block 5) (fig 1), or ability to perform the duties required of his or her primary military occupational specialty (PMOS). If a Soldier is unable to run or take an alternate aerobic event for the Army physical fitness test (APFT), or if any
item on DA Form 3349, block 5, is marked NO, in most cases the numerical designator should be at least a 3 to ensure that the Soldier’s case will be reviewed by an MMRB or an MEB.
I recently mentioned this on another thread. There are four instances that will trigger entry into the IDES process (i.e., MEB, PEB, etc).
• The medical side will refer you to a MEBD if they can't help you anymore, you're 'broken' and may not meet medical retention standards.
• If you've been given a P3 or P4 profile, you'll trigger a MMRB to determine if you can still meet the standards of your MOS
• Your commander can kick you over to medical for an evaluation (which may lead to MEBD as in the first case) if they don't think you can do your MOS related duties
• HQDA directed action
Your Soldier likely falls into the first or second category. If the cardiologist has been working with him and in his view they have reached "the limit of military medicine to help" and he views your troop as not being able to meet the minimum standards of medical fitness to remain in the military, then they'll refer him to be medically evaluated.
If your Soldier cannot do something fully based on his PULHES factors* (in this case, likely 'P' for Physical capacity or stamina or possibly 'U' for his thoracic region) and your troop is rated as a '3' or '4', then it will automatically trigger a MMRB.
If he's getting nowhere with the medical side and your unit commander truly believes he cannot function, then your unit commander can do a command referral to the medical side and force an examination and possible push to a MEBD.
However, all this is assume that the Soldier is really 'broke'. Having lasting issues from surgery that do not severely limit his ability to perform the functions of his MOS or general abilities as a Soldier are not issues that would lead to a medial discharge.
Everything comes down to the standards of medical fitness and if the condition has been deemed permanent or not.
---------------------------------------
* '3' designation for PULHES factors - A profile with a numerical designator of 3 in one or more factors indicates that the Soldier has one or more medical conditions or physical defects that may require significant limitations to the Soldier’s activities. Limitations are considered significant if they affect the Soldier’s deployability, ability to perform basic Soldier duties (DA Form 3349, block 5) (fig 1), or ability to perform the duties required of his or her primary military occupational specialty (PMOS). If a Soldier is unable to run or take an alternate aerobic event for the Army physical fitness test (APFT), or if any
item on DA Form 3349, block 5, is marked NO, in most cases the numerical designator should be at least a 3 to ensure that the Soldier’s case will be reviewed by an MMRB or an MEB.
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SFC (Join to see)
Thank you for the detailed response Sir. I should’ve worded better by saying “Transition from military service”. The Soldier has multiple episodes of palpitations weekly
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COL Randall C.
SFC (Join to see) - Rgr - Just to be clear - are you referring to leaving the military before his ETS or being medically discharged.
In either case, if he's having multiple heart palpitations a week, it could be normal or indicative of an underlaying condition. A visit to the cardiologist is the only way to know for sure - they are the experts. (this is NOT medical advice, so take it with a grain of salt) From what I've been told by my cardiologist, by themselves, they aren't too much of a worry but if he's also experiencing shortness of breath, dizziness, feeling faint, chest pains, etc.. then straight to the hospital!
If he's having heart palpitations and they don't have any other symptoms (i.e., fatigued, dizzy, etc) or interfere with anything, then likely he won't be boarded simply because "why?" - if he still meets the standards of medical fitness*, then there's nothing to evaluated.
However, this doesn't mean there isn't something going on. If I were him, I'd keep pushing and pushing to have more tests run to ensure there isn't something going on - ECG, EKG, Echocardiograms, stress tests, angiograms, Cardiac CT, etc. As long as the issue persists, keep pushing to find out WHY it persists.
But ... that doesn't make him unfit for retention in the military unless there is something else tied to the palpitations. If there is and it makes him 'unfit' then he'll be boarded if they can't fix it. If he's good, then he'll be treated like any other Soldier and can leave when his contract is up (ETS date).
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* https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN37125-AR_40-501-001-WEB-3.pdf
In either case, if he's having multiple heart palpitations a week, it could be normal or indicative of an underlaying condition. A visit to the cardiologist is the only way to know for sure - they are the experts. (this is NOT medical advice, so take it with a grain of salt) From what I've been told by my cardiologist, by themselves, they aren't too much of a worry but if he's also experiencing shortness of breath, dizziness, feeling faint, chest pains, etc.. then straight to the hospital!
If he's having heart palpitations and they don't have any other symptoms (i.e., fatigued, dizzy, etc) or interfere with anything, then likely he won't be boarded simply because "why?" - if he still meets the standards of medical fitness*, then there's nothing to evaluated.
However, this doesn't mean there isn't something going on. If I were him, I'd keep pushing and pushing to have more tests run to ensure there isn't something going on - ECG, EKG, Echocardiograms, stress tests, angiograms, Cardiac CT, etc. As long as the issue persists, keep pushing to find out WHY it persists.
But ... that doesn't make him unfit for retention in the military unless there is something else tied to the palpitations. If there is and it makes him 'unfit' then he'll be boarded if they can't fix it. If he's good, then he'll be treated like any other Soldier and can leave when his contract is up (ETS date).
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* https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN37125-AR_40-501-001-WEB-3.pdf
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Your SMs provider is the one that will determine if they should be evaluated by a MEB. While I've never experienced a MEB, I've known plenty of folks that had heart surgery. Its not an easy procedure, nor is it an easy recovery. Your SM needs to have a serious conversation with their doctor
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MAJ Ken Landgren
Correct. The center of gravity or the true strength of the process is the PCM. The PCM is pivotal in cases like this.
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Its up to his physician to start it with the command. Which should been started after surgery, with at least a P3 profile.
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