Posted on Sep 11, 2015
Mixed-gender teams come up short in Marines' infantry experiment. What do you think?
47.8K
440
213
20
20
0
All-male ground combat teams outperformed their mixed-gender counterparts in nearly every capacity during a recent infantry integration test, Marine Corps officials revealed Thursday.
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
The troubling findings come as Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford prepares to make a crucial decision regarding the integration of female troops into closed combat roles. Faced with a Defense Department-wide mandate that will open all jobs to women by Jan. 1, he must decide whether to ask for specific exceptions to the mandate in order to preserve combat readiness. Officials said Dunford had met with Navy Secretary Ray Mabus about the decision but had yet to issue his recommendations.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
Long story but an interesting read. My take is two-fold. One, women simply don't have the experience that men do. That will (most likely) improve over time as women gain experience.
Two, women for the most part simply do not have the muscular strength and endurance that men do. That's basic physiology.
Data collected during a monthslong experiment showed Marine teams with female members performed at lower overall levels, completed tasks more slowly and fired weapons with less accuracy than their all-male counterparts. In addition, female Marines sustained significantly higher injury rates and demonstrated lower levels of physical performance capacity overall, officials said.
The troubling findings come as Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford prepares to make a crucial decision regarding the integration of female troops into closed combat roles. Faced with a Defense Department-wide mandate that will open all jobs to women by Jan. 1, he must decide whether to ask for specific exceptions to the mandate in order to preserve combat readiness. Officials said Dunford had met with Navy Secretary Ray Mabus about the decision but had yet to issue his recommendations.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
Long story but an interesting read. My take is two-fold. One, women simply don't have the experience that men do. That will (most likely) improve over time as women gain experience.
Two, women for the most part simply do not have the muscular strength and endurance that men do. That's basic physiology.
Women in the Military
Marine Corps
Infantry
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 78
2
2
0
Wasted Time, and Money. America has over 239 Years of Experience, and results that say Men in the Infantry, or Any Combat MOS, is the way it should be. Men get results, Finish the Objective, and Win Wars. Jessica Lynch is a perfect example of why NOT to have women in the infantry. Imagine if a woman, left her post in combat, like Bergdahl, even more men would be put in more harms way with a huge rescue party. This Shit needs to STOP!!
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
2
2
0
Not too surprising.
If we want female combat troops we need female only combat units.
If we want female combat troops we need female only combat units.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
These results make the decision to allow women to serve in Force Recon all the more difficult IMHO. Plus trying to do a Force Reduction Analysis again which has to have an effect on morale ???
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I'm sorry, but I have to step in as someone who does quantitative research. First off, the sample size is incredibly small and unreliable. Whichever side you support, you CANNOT make a generalization off this type of data. Second, the Marine Corps is a very interesting situation in the first place because almost everything is segregated to begin with (what we in the sciences would call selection bias). Female marines are completely separated from their male counterparts, so even training exposure would be different. Even those non-infantry males would still have done boot camp with infantry folk. That cannot be said for the females.
At the end of the day, though, I honestly don't think anyone is going to be convinced from whatever preconceived notion you've developed thus far about mixed gender roles in the military, etc.
At the end of the day, though, I honestly don't think anyone is going to be convinced from whatever preconceived notion you've developed thus far about mixed gender roles in the military, etc.
(2)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
CSM Michael Chavaree - So, in statistics, a larger sample size would reduce the standard error, meaning the variability in the groups.
So for instance, imagine if we made startling conclusions if we randomly sampled even 2,000 people in the U.S. That would be ludicrous right? Well, if we sampled multiple groups of 2,000, that would get us closer to a general idea of the general population, which is what we want.
So for instance, imagine if we made startling conclusions if we randomly sampled even 2,000 people in the U.S. That would be ludicrous right? Well, if we sampled multiple groups of 2,000, that would get us closer to a general idea of the general population, which is what we want.
(0)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
Cpl Michael Oeser - Ranger school is a bit different though. Seeing that a woman could pass ranger school just shows that it is an option (since not everyone is expected to pass and there is high attrition). On the other hand, this study is trying to make a generalization about women in the infantry which is dangerous.
(2)
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
CPT (Join to see)
Sir, I understand that you are only a First Lieutenant but you are trying to use facts in a political discussion. This whole subject has nothing to do with anything other than trying to make a group feel better. Using facts will only make the waters muddy, which only make it take longer for the leaders to get what THEY want. Pointing out the MANY flaws will only get you eviscerated by the leaders on both sides. I am sure they want you to be a good little O-2 and just shake your head and agree. Also, return the salute of any O-1 who salutes you.
Sir, I understand that you are only a First Lieutenant but you are trying to use facts in a political discussion. This whole subject has nothing to do with anything other than trying to make a group feel better. Using facts will only make the waters muddy, which only make it take longer for the leaders to get what THEY want. Pointing out the MANY flaws will only get you eviscerated by the leaders on both sides. I am sure they want you to be a good little O-2 and just shake your head and agree. Also, return the salute of any O-1 who salutes you.
(2)
(0)
CPT Pedro Meza
MSG Brad Sand - Your reply to the 1LT mixes facts and political discussion when in fact we do have women demonstrating that they have the mettle to serve in combat roles; yes some see it as political correctness but it is a fact.
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
Of course it won't.. facts don't matter in the face of ideology.
Articles: The Quiet Revolution: How the New Left Took Over the Democratic Party
Frustration with division and gridlock in Washington leads many Americans to impugn both political parties for the current broken and ineffective state of government. There is plenty of blame to go around, but below the surface there has been a quiet revolution going on in only one of the two parties -- the Democratic Party -- which is the main source of today’s irreconcilable division and moral confusion.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Has the actual Integration testing report come out yet? Not just the summary.
I'd love to see the "meat and potatoes" of this.
I'd love to see the "meat and potatoes" of this.
(2)
(0)
1
1
0
NO DISRESPECT TO OUR LADIES IN UNIFORM BUT HELL NO THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT SHOULD BE MALE ONLY BEING PC IS A LOAD OF C##P I ALSO DO NOT THINK WOMEN SHOULD BE ON COMBAT SHIPS JUST TO PROVE HOW UPWARD WE ARE WHEN I SERVED THERE WERE NO WOMEN ON BOARD COMBATANTS JUST TENDERS I THINK IT SHOULD STILL BE THAT WAY AND NOW INTERGRATING ON SUBS COME ON FOR CHRIST'S SAKES.
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
1
1
0
Hate to agree on this one. It hard on some men as well working in the 0311 mos field. Working long period of time in the field in combat is very raining to the body and mine. I have seen it. I do believe women Marines bring so much to the Corps that we as Marine's won't be as honored without them.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google