Posted on Jun 6, 2014
MSG stand at Parade Rest for 1SG or SGM for a CSM
132K
299
110
15
15
0
I am finding a lot of contention with the saluting post. I will now put on the level of enlisted soldiers now.
If you are in a company that has a MSG in it, like an HHC, would the MSG stand at parade rest for the 1SG. The 1SG is the senior most soldier in the company. Would this be the case for a OPS SGM and the BN CSM.
I know they are all the same pay grade but the duty position makes one the Senior and one the subordinate. If you think this is still not clear. Would a BN CSM stand at Parade Rest for a BDE CSM.
Would a SPC and a CPL be the same as they are in the same pay grade?
As with LTs they see themselves as peers but one is still senior to the other.
FM 7-21.13 para 4-16
• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
If you are in a company that has a MSG in it, like an HHC, would the MSG stand at parade rest for the 1SG. The 1SG is the senior most soldier in the company. Would this be the case for a OPS SGM and the BN CSM.
I know they are all the same pay grade but the duty position makes one the Senior and one the subordinate. If you think this is still not clear. Would a BN CSM stand at Parade Rest for a BDE CSM.
Would a SPC and a CPL be the same as they are in the same pay grade?
As with LTs they see themselves as peers but one is still senior to the other.
FM 7-21.13 para 4-16
• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
Customs and Courtesies
NCOs
Peers
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 49
58
58
0
A MSG does not have to stand at parade rest for a 1SG. They are both NCO's of the same grade.
The argument regarding Specialist vs Corporal is invalid. I do not see any chevrons on a specialist. A corporal is an NCO a specialist is not.
9 times out of ten (in the infantry anyway) a MSG had already suffered his time as a 1SG and is in a staff position being groomed for the next higher pay grade.
My advice to any 1SG who tries to play a rank game with a MSG. Do everyone a solid and turn in your diamond because you are to damn full of yourself to have any business leading troops.
The argument regarding Specialist vs Corporal is invalid. I do not see any chevrons on a specialist. A corporal is an NCO a specialist is not.
9 times out of ten (in the infantry anyway) a MSG had already suffered his time as a 1SG and is in a staff position being groomed for the next higher pay grade.
My advice to any 1SG who tries to play a rank game with a MSG. Do everyone a solid and turn in your diamond because you are to damn full of yourself to have any business leading troops.
(58)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
To the question asked, MSG''s as 1SG''s are peers. One does not out rank another, they just have different functions. I have been a 1SG of a BDE HHB, yes it is just like herding cats. I would never expect a MSG to be a parade rest when talking to me. And if a 1SG expected that from me, we'll after I stopped laughing we could discuss it.
As for calling the 1SG Top, it is a term of respect and I have no problem with.
As for calling the 1SG Top, it is a term of respect and I have no problem with.
(6)
(0)
MAJ Todd Lamb
I think this is stupid. Rank is an identifier of function, not necessarily of ability. A DA form can transform a MSG into a 1SG, and I've seen both so sloppy that it's no wonder no one respected them. If I needed a PSG I promoted (position) within my best squad leaders. I got in a lot of trouble, but nobody died
(2)
(0)
CPL Rodney Trotter
I was a prior service Corporal in the USMC before I reenlisted into the Army Reserves. I had to lose a rank to join back up, but when I got promoted from PFC back up to an E-4, I was actually made a Corporal in the Army, instead of a Specialist. My Reserve unit had no freaking clue how to treat a Corporal. To most of them, I was just another Spec and was even subjected to the same working parties as the E3s and below, not in charge of those working parties, WORKING those working parties.
After talking with my Reserve Unit's First Sgt, he got in the formation before the end of the day one drill weekend and had to verbally chew out every NCO and Staff NCO in the unit for treating a fellow NCO as a buck private. He said that since I was a prior service USCM Corporal, I'd had more time in leadership under my belt that the majority of them and from that day on I was to treated as a Corporal. He said if they had no clue how to do that, pretend I was a SGT or SSG because I'd probably at one point filled the billet of that rank in the Corps. Things got a lot better after that drill weekend when I wasnt lumped in with the rest of the Non NCOs.
After talking with my Reserve Unit's First Sgt, he got in the formation before the end of the day one drill weekend and had to verbally chew out every NCO and Staff NCO in the unit for treating a fellow NCO as a buck private. He said that since I was a prior service USCM Corporal, I'd had more time in leadership under my belt that the majority of them and from that day on I was to treated as a Corporal. He said if they had no clue how to do that, pretend I was a SGT or SSG because I'd probably at one point filled the billet of that rank in the Corps. Things got a lot better after that drill weekend when I wasnt lumped in with the rest of the Non NCOs.
(0)
(0)
50
50
0
I am a MSG assigned to a HHC company and I stand at parade rest for the 1SG and 99.99% of the time, the 1SG tells me to instantly "to stop that" but I do it just to show the other Soldiers what right looks like and show when I get onto another NCO or Soldier for not doing, they know that I do it for the 1SG. It doesn't hurt me nor cause me any undue pressure or stress in my life. Now, I never required it for other MSG to do it for me when I was a 1SG, but I just feels it sets that standard for Soldiers to follow.
(50)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
MSG,
You are absolutely 100% correct. It displays respect and professionalism to the juniors.
You are absolutely 100% correct. It displays respect and professionalism to the juniors.
(3)
(0)
(0)
(0)
17
17
0
A MSG/1SG and SGM/CSM are of the same rank, it's just a change in duty position or a lateral promotion, if you will. A MSG and SGM are staff positions where a 1SG/CSM are in command positions. So, if you look at the reg excerp, it states "of superior rank" not "of superior duty postion".
Looking at the LT saluting thread a 1LT is of higher rank than a 2LT.
Looking at the LT saluting thread a 1LT is of higher rank than a 2LT.
(17)
(0)
CSM Michael Poll
Yes I answer to a BDE CSM and I stand at Parade rest for them until they tell me to relax
(4)
(0)
SFC Royce Williams
I have to disagree with you SFC Carl Johnson. They are of the same pay grade but not the same rank. There is a big difference. They should afford the proper respect. I have never seen a 1SG or CSM not tell the MSG or SGM to cut it out unless they were in trouble.
(1)
(0)
CW2 Carl Swanson
Unless things have changed, SGM and CSM are designated when promoted to E-9. They are not interchangeable like the 1SG/MSG.
(0)
(0)
10
10
0
Im a SFC and i stand at parade rest when talking to my 1SG. When he tells me to relax it seems odd to me so i just go back to parade rest lol. I cant help it. I like to be at parade rest so when he starts yelling at me he doesnt have to tell me to lock up lol.
Im just joking on the last part.
Im just joking on the last part.
(10)
(0)
1SG Michael Blount
@SFC Desmond Thomas - you will never go wrong standing at Parade Rest even though your 1SG or CSM tells you to "relax". I refuse to fall for that trick and just get comfortable where I'm at and am supposed to be - Parade Rest. I like my head just where it is -- on my shoulders
(0)
(0)
9
9
0
MSG need not stand at Parade Rest for a 1SG, as they are of the same rank. Both the MSG and 1SG assume Parade Rest for either the SGM or CSM. Similarly, the SGM need not stand at Parade Rest for the CSM, though if it's the Bde or Div CSM we're talking about, Parade Rest probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
(9)
(0)
7
7
0
a great CSM once told me, if i have to tell you to stand at parade rest, i may have failed. I am a MSG. The 1SG is not always the senior MSG in an HHC. in fact, most times, he isnt the senior MSG. He does hold that top position. but standing at parade rest to someone who is the same rank as you is unnecessary. when i first entered, the division CSM would make his BDE CSM stand at parade rest. in fact, this angry fella drop one of them for pushups in front of the airborne community. what do you think that did for his power base? this whole respect thing is great, but again, if you are so focused on salutes, and parade rest things, you just may miss a chance at being a real leader to those around you.
(7)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
not that i am saying that dicipline isnt important, but this post seems more like a power issue. the 1SG is the leader, but he doesnt need to do that to other MSG. the CSM is the boss, but i am sure he doesnt expect that from his staff sgms.
(1)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
I like that saying from the CSM. Still til this day I haven't demanded a salute from anyone. I just use it as a gauge of quality of soldier. I can't ever say I have seen a CSM do that to another CSM. That would be something best kept in an office. I have see a company commander go off on a PL. We had one CO that would go off on my PL. The PL was dicked up but do that in front of the whole company is not what you should do. You should be open with your soldier and mentor them and not blast them for mistake in the open.
(1)
(0)
What if the MSG here has already been a 1SG? Sometimes after a 1SG has finished his time in that position, and has handed off that role, he goes back to wearing MSG rank (correct?). So in this case, the MSG here may actually be more senior as far as TIG than the 1SG.
(6)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Sir,
I agree that he may have more TIG, but he is no longer in the position of a 1SG.
I agree that he may have more TIG, but he is no longer in the position of a 1SG.
(1)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
The question becomes in what position are they in. We had a situation in my a while back where they pulled the 1SG and put him in OPS as a MSG and pulled the MSG and made him the 1SG. It is as you would say a lateral promotion in a sense.
(0)
(0)
SFC Royce Williams
The rules are black and white. Should he? Yes. Will he? Probably not. No different than SPC and CPL. Very seldom is CPL a DA promotion anymore. It is usually a lateral promotion for team leaders etc. once a CPL swaps those Chevrons back in for the sham shield he is no longer senior to the other SPC's in his unit.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
I have seen many MSGs and SGMs stand at ease for their senior counterparts. Usually it occurs in a more public forum, like at a formation or in large gathering like a briefing. I've also seen it happen during an office call. Once that initial meeting has occured, it becomes a bit lore casual when the two are in a more private setting (for example, I'm in the Corps CSM office and the G4 SGM comes in, he doesn't go to at ease or parade rest but I don't interpret that as being any less respectful)
(6)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
My experience lends me to agree. While one E-8 may be in a position of more authority/command, more often than not they are formal when need be and generally convey a cordiality we afford to our peers when in the office or in non-duty related events.
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
Parade Rest:
- Enlisted Soldiers assume this position when addressing all noncommissioned officers or when noncommissioned officers address noncommissioned officers of superior rank.
- Enlisted Soldiers assume this position when addressing all noncommissioned officers or when noncommissioned officers address noncommissioned officers of superior rank.
(5)
(0)
5
5
0
Sir,
I believe the MSG would have to stand at parade rest for the 1SG. Like you stated, even though they are the same pay grade, the 1SG is in a position of authority. I believe the same is true for the different types of CSMs.
/r
SGT McLamb
I believe the MSG would have to stand at parade rest for the 1SG. Like you stated, even though they are the same pay grade, the 1SG is in a position of authority. I believe the same is true for the different types of CSMs.
/r
SGT McLamb
(5)
(0)
1SG Chris Brown
No way. I have a MSG as well as two subordinate 1SGs. Our Battalion is a bit unique in that we are not authorized a CSM, but instead I am the Battalion 1SG with a detachment in Germany and one in Hawaii. I would never, ever even think about trying to lock up another MSG/1SG. Maybe there are some 1SGs on a power trip, but at the E8 level, we go back and forth from MSG to 1SG over and over until eventually you either retire or get promoted. I may be the 'Top' NCO, but that doesn't give me the big head that thinks I need to push my power onto a fellow MSG. These are my battle buddies, not my subordinates!
(8)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google