Posted on Nov 20, 2017
National Guard NCOs, how do we fix our APFT numbers? We can not force soldiers to PT outside of IDT status. How can we fix it?
117K
833
332
52
52
0
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 147
Positive influence and leadership and communication. It works, ive been there and done that.
(5)
(0)
There are only two ways, reduce the standard by shortening the run route or stopping the time watch, or submitting discharge packets for repeated failures. One of these is ethical and one is not... Those are your only real options, doing PT with the Soldiers is a good concept for a very select few, but unenforceable.
(5)
(0)
I was guard for 6 years, 14 years seperated, then another 6 years. I see two big problems with "Self PT". First many Guard and Reservists work 50+hours/week at civilian jobs and many attend college on top of that. Add to that the required SSD training and other training requirements that the Guardsman/Rrservist must do on their own time and that presents little time to do good and proper work outs. This is especially true with office dweller who suffer from low metabolisms because they drive a desk all day.
The second biggest problem that i see is a much bigger one. As an active duty soldier if you get hurt, you get free medical, but not only that, an injury could cause a potential disability. Where a full time soldier is covered, the citizen soldier is not. Example, i suffered a 360° lambrum tear of my right shoulder while at the gym (paid for by me) doing push ups. I wasn't lifting that day and was ironically doing a self diagnostic APFT. I was on the hook for the surgery and if it had occured while training, an LOD would have been issued and i could have recieved a VA disability for the injury. That is kinda huge.
The second biggest problem that i see is a much bigger one. As an active duty soldier if you get hurt, you get free medical, but not only that, an injury could cause a potential disability. Where a full time soldier is covered, the citizen soldier is not. Example, i suffered a 360° lambrum tear of my right shoulder while at the gym (paid for by me) doing push ups. I wasn't lifting that day and was ironically doing a self diagnostic APFT. I was on the hook for the surgery and if it had occured while training, an LOD would have been issued and i could have recieved a VA disability for the injury. That is kinda huge.
(4)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
True. It seems like the Army is constantly coming up with more things for us that we're required to do outside of drill in our personal time. The more they give us to do, the more soldiers are going to resent EVERY intrusion into our nondrill time. When that happens, people start deciding that it's no longer worth it to be in the Army.
(0)
(0)
By making the leaders more involved in their soldiers day to day lives. who says you can’t contact a soldier every single day outside of drill? A simple text every day reminding them to run or do some training. I would buy my soldiers fitbits (tax write off) so I could see actual proof that they are training. You can’t force them, but you can annoy the shit out of them on a daily basis and sort of shame them into training. Everyone on the team can be connected and see how much everyone is working out online. Idk, just a random idea I had
(4)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
I like the fit bit idea. But I’m not sure you can ride it off on taxes. I’m also speaking about the Guard as a whole.
(0)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
I started off Air Force Reserve and then went Army Guard. In all my time in the Air Force, I got contacted outside of drill twice. When I switched to the Army, I immediately learned that the Army thought it owned me 24/7. It didn't take very long before I started getting pissed off immediately whenever I got a call or a text from leadership outside of drill.
Start hassling soldiers all the time and you'll have a major retention problem pretty soon.
Start hassling soldiers all the time and you'll have a major retention problem pretty soon.
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
I refuse to speak to my unit until drill for that very reason, they annoy the shit out of me. I've blocked them all on my phone and got a tracphone so they have a number to reach me.
(0)
(0)
As someone who struggled with the PT test, especially when I transitioned from active to guard, here's my take. I was "alone" as I drilled a significant distance from where I lived.
Under these circumstances you don't have the "shared pain" of fitness training. Perhaps your answer lies in gym membership, participation in sporting clubs, etc. Any place where there is a supportive environment for training. For example I encourage new recruits who are still in high school to go out for track in the spring. I still remember one very unathletic potential Marine running dead last in a race, and her recruiter running along to encourage! Btw: she is now a proud Marine.
Those recruiters might be an additional resource. In many places they run fitness programs. See if your soldiers could join them. Branch shouldn't matter.
Just a few scattered ideas
Under these circumstances you don't have the "shared pain" of fitness training. Perhaps your answer lies in gym membership, participation in sporting clubs, etc. Any place where there is a supportive environment for training. For example I encourage new recruits who are still in high school to go out for track in the spring. I still remember one very unathletic potential Marine running dead last in a race, and her recruiter running along to encourage! Btw: she is now a proud Marine.
Those recruiters might be an additional resource. In many places they run fitness programs. See if your soldiers could join them. Branch shouldn't matter.
Just a few scattered ideas
(4)
(0)
As a retired service member that had to pass a minimum physical fitness test twice annually, that was not too much to ask. Pride and commitment to bettering ones self esteem along with striving to set the best example for the country you serve should be a constant motivator. Failure is just that, being a part of something just long enough to say I deserve my benefits now, should not be an option. If minimum standards can not be maintained personally, removal from service is the only option. Need more numbers, bring back the draft and put young men and women in a place of responsibility, something greatly missing from our youth today.
(2)
(0)
I was in the Reserve for 7 years now active duty and never had an issue. Its called disipline.
(2)
(0)
As a Commander, I incorporated PT into every drill. I would rotate which sections were in charge each month and they would go over their plan with me the month before. This showed that it was important to me. At AT, we did PT three days each week. This was more of a traditional PT with the standard events. We scheduled a morning and evening time to give everyone a chance to hit one or the other. If a SM failed their APFT, they were counseled and given 6 months to pass. If they didn't pass the second one, I'd give them one more chance, but they had to give me a stripe for that chance. This included NCOs (didn't have any officers attached). If they didn't want to voluntarily give a stripe, we processed them for discharge. I put out about 10 people, but 6 out 7 who gave up a stripe passed on the 3rd try. I immediately promoted them back to their original rank with original date of rank.
(2)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
Forgot to mention, those unwilling to give up rank for a 3rd chance (only a couple of people), I took their rank before discharging them.
(0)
(0)
CSM Thomas McGarry
LTC (Join to see) - Good idea Sir-Many don't realize it but if you do not do this important step the soldier automatically goes into the IRR and id activated out of the IRR as many have been in prior years, they continue to hold the rank they had and thus receive this pay!
(1)
(0)
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
It sounds like you are not struggling to have even the minimum manpower necessary. As I youncounterparts who work with maintenance and transportation how easily they can take those losses. Or in some Moss find people who can even get into those Moss.
(0)
(0)
SGT(P) (Join to see)
PFC (Join to see) this comment was made before they decided on the new test. But the new test is worse for guard than ever before.
(1)
(0)
I've worked with Guard and seen the best and worse of soldiers. One issue is the Leadership becomes stagnate. For the AGR, it's the same dudes, same units, never any type of rotation and failure to change from the old system. Allot of good ideas come with new commanders but ends up with the same problem your asking. Unfortunately a Commander has to get rid of the good ol boy network and hold Officers and NCO's accountable. Not all cases but very common. There's also the issue of training time, costs and the amount of effort placed on a physical fitness program. 2 days compressed in each month to conduct training isn't enough to establish a training regimen. If most of the "drill" day is spent behind a computer conducting mandated training, there's little time or enthusiasm to enforce PT. However this has to fall on the individual soldier and if there's no self drive to be the best with what what they can effect, why allow advance schooling and promotions. Everyone wants to wear the uniform and grow a beard but a little bit of intestinal fortitude will correct this. It takes forever to remove a NG/AR soldier from the rolls, makes the Commander look bad and it doesn't help if half of the unit is sporting a profile. The dead weight isn't helping to instill a warrior culture and has to find another line of work. Just my $.02
(2)
(0)
Read This Next

APFT
