Posted on Sep 2, 2015
Navy LT considered resigning commission to attend Dartmouth?
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http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/31/top-junior-officers-picked-new-grad-school-program/71314798/
I read this article today while launching birds to the USS Ronald Reagan, and the beginning sounded like satire from The Duffel Blog/Onion. How can someone get a $400,000 scholarship to the Naval Academy, become a Pilot, then consider resigning at the five year mark to pursue Grad School? After which, the Navy agrees to continue to pay them and send them to Dartmouth full time?
I work 90 hours a week to finish my Masters Degree as an Enlisted Sailor, and this article was completely infuriating. Does it require over a half million dollars in government sponsored education at two of the top universities in the world to become a successful pilot? I kicked this question up to some control grade pilots today and got some hilarious responses. What say you Rally Point?
I read this article today while launching birds to the USS Ronald Reagan, and the beginning sounded like satire from The Duffel Blog/Onion. How can someone get a $400,000 scholarship to the Naval Academy, become a Pilot, then consider resigning at the five year mark to pursue Grad School? After which, the Navy agrees to continue to pay them and send them to Dartmouth full time?
I work 90 hours a week to finish my Masters Degree as an Enlisted Sailor, and this article was completely infuriating. Does it require over a half million dollars in government sponsored education at two of the top universities in the world to become a successful pilot? I kicked this question up to some control grade pilots today and got some hilarious responses. What say you Rally Point?
Education
Graduate School
Scholarship
Navy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
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This is complicated.
First, when he joined the Naval Academy, he takes on an obligation time frame just like an enlisted does. In this case it appears to be 5 years.
Second, we all have goals. One of his primary goals was to get a Masters Degree. An opportunity presented where he could get one at a "top tier" school. That put him into a position where his primary goal was in direct conflict with his Naval Career.
It did not however place him in conflict with his obligation time frame. He had already paid back the time he owed. So he's stuck in the choice of choosing between himself and the Navy. What do you do? The Navy will not always be there for you. He pursued his primary goal with the better long term payout. And I can't blame him for that.
Now, his CoC actually asked him what was going on. Good on them. They found out he didn't actually want to get out, but he had an opportunity which was too good to pass up, and there was a case of "who you know" which made things work.
Sec Mabus & Sec Carter have been talking about how we are losing too many people because of these conflicts for about a year. They're right. We have. I had to make a similar decision 13 years ago. I don't regret it, but I do wonder what might have been, and if I got a phone call today, I'd be wearing a uniform tomorrow, regardless the number of stripes on my sleeves.
So, what we really have here, is the Navy holding onto an "investment" they already made. As you said, they already spent half a million dollars on him. He's going to walk out the door. And there's nothing they can do about it... or... they can. They can "make all his dreams come true." And in 2 years when he finishes this grad program, he's got another 5 year payback, and 12~ years in, and over the half-way mark, sitting on LCdr, thinking "I can do 20, no sweat."
First, when he joined the Naval Academy, he takes on an obligation time frame just like an enlisted does. In this case it appears to be 5 years.
Second, we all have goals. One of his primary goals was to get a Masters Degree. An opportunity presented where he could get one at a "top tier" school. That put him into a position where his primary goal was in direct conflict with his Naval Career.
It did not however place him in conflict with his obligation time frame. He had already paid back the time he owed. So he's stuck in the choice of choosing between himself and the Navy. What do you do? The Navy will not always be there for you. He pursued his primary goal with the better long term payout. And I can't blame him for that.
Now, his CoC actually asked him what was going on. Good on them. They found out he didn't actually want to get out, but he had an opportunity which was too good to pass up, and there was a case of "who you know" which made things work.
Sec Mabus & Sec Carter have been talking about how we are losing too many people because of these conflicts for about a year. They're right. We have. I had to make a similar decision 13 years ago. I don't regret it, but I do wonder what might have been, and if I got a phone call today, I'd be wearing a uniform tomorrow, regardless the number of stripes on my sleeves.
So, what we really have here, is the Navy holding onto an "investment" they already made. As you said, they already spent half a million dollars on him. He's going to walk out the door. And there's nothing they can do about it... or... they can. They can "make all his dreams come true." And in 2 years when he finishes this grad program, he's got another 5 year payback, and 12~ years in, and over the half-way mark, sitting on LCdr, thinking "I can do 20, no sweat."
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
That's interesting. Back in the day, one had a 5 year obligation AFTER wings. Times change. He should be able to resign his regular commission and pick up a Reserve one. That's how it works. He can fly in the reserves, which is a heck of a deal.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
I think that PO1 (Join to see) was more referring to the part about the Navy paying for officers to go to grad school while not opening the program up to enlisted who are pursuing the same goal.
From the personal perspective, everyday is full of tough choices. He graduated from the Naval Academy, served his mandated time, and was ready to leave to pursue his ultimate goal. You can't, and shouldn't fault a person for trying to better themselves.
From the personal perspective, everyday is full of tough choices. He graduated from the Naval Academy, served his mandated time, and was ready to leave to pursue his ultimate goal. You can't, and shouldn't fault a person for trying to better themselves.
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1) His picture clearly shows a SWO pin, not pilot's wings, meaning his contract was expired. Most SWOs leave at the end of their first contract.
2) His command showed interest in him for a program specifically designed to keep people like him in the Navy, which I reiterate would not otherwise happen because his contract was up, and they pushed it through because it was mutually beneficial. You would undoubtedly appreciate the same from your command.
3) Have a Snickers. You get angry when you're hungry.
2) His command showed interest in him for a program specifically designed to keep people like him in the Navy, which I reiterate would not otherwise happen because his contract was up, and they pushed it through because it was mutually beneficial. You would undoubtedly appreciate the same from your command.
3) Have a Snickers. You get angry when you're hungry.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
Bro, I just like your application of the Snikers commercial. I'm totally using in from now on!
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PO1 John Miller
LCDR (Join to see)
Actually there's three officers pictured in the Navy Crimes (I mean Times) article. The third one is LT Joel Jacobs, a Naval Flight Officer and Naval Flight Officer of the year.
Actually there's three officers pictured in the Navy Crimes (I mean Times) article. The third one is LT Joel Jacobs, a Naval Flight Officer and Naval Flight Officer of the year.
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So, he has already served out his commitment. If he were just getting out and not going to Dartmouth, would you have a problem with it?
To me, this seems pretty consistent with what the DoD has been trying to implement with the "career intermission" program...allow people to take a year or two off in order to pursue a personal goal, then come back to the military. This seems like a win to me...instead of losing what is, according to the story, a sharp young officer just because he doesn't want to lose the chance to go to graduate school, instead we gain a mid-level CGO with a new commitment timeline and a healthy civilian education, which will help him bring new ideas and innovations to the table. And it still costs less than producing a new officer from scratch.
To me, this seems pretty consistent with what the DoD has been trying to implement with the "career intermission" program...allow people to take a year or two off in order to pursue a personal goal, then come back to the military. This seems like a win to me...instead of losing what is, according to the story, a sharp young officer just because he doesn't want to lose the chance to go to graduate school, instead we gain a mid-level CGO with a new commitment timeline and a healthy civilian education, which will help him bring new ideas and innovations to the table. And it still costs less than producing a new officer from scratch.
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PO1 (Join to see)
CAPT, I actually do not have a problem with any of this. I am actually not sure how much of the article was taken out of context either. It just seems like a lot for the Navy to shell out a half million dollars after only five years of service so someone can go to Dartmouth for Grad School. If I were him I would eagerly accept this offer, but then again, us enlisted guys give multiyear commitments for nothing more than a guaranteed semi monthly paycheck.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) - And, depending on career field, re-enlistment bonuses...something the officers don't get.
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1stLt (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) - That last sentence in the original reply is key. "...costs less than producing a new officer from scratch". It's all about opportunity cost.
At the end of the day I think every service member should be happy that we're trending away from a rigid personnel system.
At the end of the day I think every service member should be happy that we're trending away from a rigid personnel system.
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CPT Daniel Cox
PO1 (Join to see) - I think you are mistaking the amounts. The half of a million dollars was taking the estimated value of a Naval Academy education ($400,000) and adding the tuition to Dartmouth to get the half million dollar figure.
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