Posted on Sep 2, 2015
Navy LT considered resigning commission to attend Dartmouth?
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http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/31/top-junior-officers-picked-new-grad-school-program/71314798/
I read this article today while launching birds to the USS Ronald Reagan, and the beginning sounded like satire from The Duffel Blog/Onion. How can someone get a $400,000 scholarship to the Naval Academy, become a Pilot, then consider resigning at the five year mark to pursue Grad School? After which, the Navy agrees to continue to pay them and send them to Dartmouth full time?
I work 90 hours a week to finish my Masters Degree as an Enlisted Sailor, and this article was completely infuriating. Does it require over a half million dollars in government sponsored education at two of the top universities in the world to become a successful pilot? I kicked this question up to some control grade pilots today and got some hilarious responses. What say you Rally Point?
I read this article today while launching birds to the USS Ronald Reagan, and the beginning sounded like satire from The Duffel Blog/Onion. How can someone get a $400,000 scholarship to the Naval Academy, become a Pilot, then consider resigning at the five year mark to pursue Grad School? After which, the Navy agrees to continue to pay them and send them to Dartmouth full time?
I work 90 hours a week to finish my Masters Degree as an Enlisted Sailor, and this article was completely infuriating. Does it require over a half million dollars in government sponsored education at two of the top universities in the world to become a successful pilot? I kicked this question up to some control grade pilots today and got some hilarious responses. What say you Rally Point?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
This is complicated.
First, when he joined the Naval Academy, he takes on an obligation time frame just like an enlisted does. In this case it appears to be 5 years.
Second, we all have goals. One of his primary goals was to get a Masters Degree. An opportunity presented where he could get one at a "top tier" school. That put him into a position where his primary goal was in direct conflict with his Naval Career.
It did not however place him in conflict with his obligation time frame. He had already paid back the time he owed. So he's stuck in the choice of choosing between himself and the Navy. What do you do? The Navy will not always be there for you. He pursued his primary goal with the better long term payout. And I can't blame him for that.
Now, his CoC actually asked him what was going on. Good on them. They found out he didn't actually want to get out, but he had an opportunity which was too good to pass up, and there was a case of "who you know" which made things work.
Sec Mabus & Sec Carter have been talking about how we are losing too many people because of these conflicts for about a year. They're right. We have. I had to make a similar decision 13 years ago. I don't regret it, but I do wonder what might have been, and if I got a phone call today, I'd be wearing a uniform tomorrow, regardless the number of stripes on my sleeves.
So, what we really have here, is the Navy holding onto an "investment" they already made. As you said, they already spent half a million dollars on him. He's going to walk out the door. And there's nothing they can do about it... or... they can. They can "make all his dreams come true." And in 2 years when he finishes this grad program, he's got another 5 year payback, and 12~ years in, and over the half-way mark, sitting on LCdr, thinking "I can do 20, no sweat."
First, when he joined the Naval Academy, he takes on an obligation time frame just like an enlisted does. In this case it appears to be 5 years.
Second, we all have goals. One of his primary goals was to get a Masters Degree. An opportunity presented where he could get one at a "top tier" school. That put him into a position where his primary goal was in direct conflict with his Naval Career.
It did not however place him in conflict with his obligation time frame. He had already paid back the time he owed. So he's stuck in the choice of choosing between himself and the Navy. What do you do? The Navy will not always be there for you. He pursued his primary goal with the better long term payout. And I can't blame him for that.
Now, his CoC actually asked him what was going on. Good on them. They found out he didn't actually want to get out, but he had an opportunity which was too good to pass up, and there was a case of "who you know" which made things work.
Sec Mabus & Sec Carter have been talking about how we are losing too many people because of these conflicts for about a year. They're right. We have. I had to make a similar decision 13 years ago. I don't regret it, but I do wonder what might have been, and if I got a phone call today, I'd be wearing a uniform tomorrow, regardless the number of stripes on my sleeves.
So, what we really have here, is the Navy holding onto an "investment" they already made. As you said, they already spent half a million dollars on him. He's going to walk out the door. And there's nothing they can do about it... or... they can. They can "make all his dreams come true." And in 2 years when he finishes this grad program, he's got another 5 year payback, and 12~ years in, and over the half-way mark, sitting on LCdr, thinking "I can do 20, no sweat."
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
That's interesting. Back in the day, one had a 5 year obligation AFTER wings. Times change. He should be able to resign his regular commission and pick up a Reserve one. That's how it works. He can fly in the reserves, which is a heck of a deal.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
I think that PO1 (Join to see) was more referring to the part about the Navy paying for officers to go to grad school while not opening the program up to enlisted who are pursuing the same goal.
From the personal perspective, everyday is full of tough choices. He graduated from the Naval Academy, served his mandated time, and was ready to leave to pursue his ultimate goal. You can't, and shouldn't fault a person for trying to better themselves.
From the personal perspective, everyday is full of tough choices. He graduated from the Naval Academy, served his mandated time, and was ready to leave to pursue his ultimate goal. You can't, and shouldn't fault a person for trying to better themselves.
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Suspended Profile
1) His picture clearly shows a SWO pin, not pilot's wings, meaning his contract was expired. Most SWOs leave at the end of their first contract.
2) His command showed interest in him for a program specifically designed to keep people like him in the Navy, which I reiterate would not otherwise happen because his contract was up, and they pushed it through because it was mutually beneficial. You would undoubtedly appreciate the same from your command.
3) Have a Snickers. You get angry when you're hungry.
2) His command showed interest in him for a program specifically designed to keep people like him in the Navy, which I reiterate would not otherwise happen because his contract was up, and they pushed it through because it was mutually beneficial. You would undoubtedly appreciate the same from your command.
3) Have a Snickers. You get angry when you're hungry.
MAJ Javier Rivera
Bro, I just like your application of the Snikers commercial. I'm totally using in from now on!
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PO1 John Miller
LTJG James Jones
Actually there's three officers pictured in the Navy Crimes (I mean Times) article. The third one is LT Joel Jacobs, a Naval Flight Officer and Naval Flight Officer of the year.
Actually there's three officers pictured in the Navy Crimes (I mean Times) article. The third one is LT Joel Jacobs, a Naval Flight Officer and Naval Flight Officer of the year.
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Suspended Profile
Still not a pilot, and he'd have a slightly different service commitment.
So, he has already served out his commitment. If he were just getting out and not going to Dartmouth, would you have a problem with it?
To me, this seems pretty consistent with what the DoD has been trying to implement with the "career intermission" program...allow people to take a year or two off in order to pursue a personal goal, then come back to the military. This seems like a win to me...instead of losing what is, according to the story, a sharp young officer just because he doesn't want to lose the chance to go to graduate school, instead we gain a mid-level CGO with a new commitment timeline and a healthy civilian education, which will help him bring new ideas and innovations to the table. And it still costs less than producing a new officer from scratch.
To me, this seems pretty consistent with what the DoD has been trying to implement with the "career intermission" program...allow people to take a year or two off in order to pursue a personal goal, then come back to the military. This seems like a win to me...instead of losing what is, according to the story, a sharp young officer just because he doesn't want to lose the chance to go to graduate school, instead we gain a mid-level CGO with a new commitment timeline and a healthy civilian education, which will help him bring new ideas and innovations to the table. And it still costs less than producing a new officer from scratch.
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PO1 (Join to see)
CAPT, I actually do not have a problem with any of this. I am actually not sure how much of the article was taken out of context either. It just seems like a lot for the Navy to shell out a half million dollars after only five years of service so someone can go to Dartmouth for Grad School. If I were him I would eagerly accept this offer, but then again, us enlisted guys give multiyear commitments for nothing more than a guaranteed semi monthly paycheck.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) - And, depending on career field, re-enlistment bonuses...something the officers don't get.
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1stLt (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) - That last sentence in the original reply is key. "...costs less than producing a new officer from scratch". It's all about opportunity cost.
At the end of the day I think every service member should be happy that we're trending away from a rigid personnel system.
At the end of the day I think every service member should be happy that we're trending away from a rigid personnel system.
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CPT Daniel Cox
PO1 (Join to see) - I think you are mistaking the amounts. The half of a million dollars was taking the estimated value of a Naval Academy education ($400,000) and adding the tuition to Dartmouth to get the half million dollar figure.
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A couple of things are in play here. First is do you want to keep someone, what will it take, and is it worth it piece. That's from the employer perspective. We see a lot of qualified pilots punching out to pursue commercial air jobs all the time. So there's stuff to entice them to stay. Same with other skill sets from medical to drones. The second is the SM. Here's where I weigh in to be shrewd with your own career and life. I had some bad experiences where the Navy took things away from me, could care less, etc. so I'm biased. My mental state was to acquire things that couldn't be taken away and education was my safety valve in restoring some sanity and making me more marketable. So anything that puts you in a better position for more diverse future options should be considered carefully. Is it worth it? We'll likely never know for sure but the odds say probably not if you're OK with "some less of whatever".
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MAJ Javier Rivera
SSG Taylor, just so you know the PSYOP Regiment (and CA / SF as well) send a handful of its Top Senior NCOs to get master degrees at the National Defense University and Naval Postgraduate School on the Army's dime every year.
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SFC (Join to see)
MAJ Javier Rivera - Which is most excellent Sir, and kudos to those who make the selection process. I'm just considering the return on investment. What a waste if he stays in for the minimum required time of his obligation and disappears into the civilian sector.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
I see your point but the fact is that everything (cost, service obligation,etc...) is all calculated in the equation. Although I would extend the service obligation for the Os. Currently the standard is 3:1(3days of service per day of school) for the most part; I would make it 4:1 to get more juice from the squeeze. for NCOs I leave it the way it is. Just my opinion.
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Makes sense to me, you left out the point that he then has to come back in and do another 3 year term. I say awesome. We chose our place...our place is not on the dark side of the force (aka Officer) it is on the NCO side of the whole picture. It is fair and we all choose where we are going in the military. On the bright side...GOOD job getting your stuff brother.
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This is nothing new I had a friend that did a fellowship at John Hopkins. In the end he will have a commitment to fulfill once he finish his Masters. Almost all officers in all branches at some point go to school full time and get their Masters as part of their career progression. This is a little unique in that he got to pick his school. But go to any ROTC unit and ask them how many active duty officers are stationed there who only job is to go to school. There are enlisted programs also that will allow you to go to school and get a degree although not at the Master level. Not sure why someones success would "infuriate" but my path would boil your blood. As an E-5 I attended a program that allowed me to get my Associates Degree then I followed that up with ECP (now SA-21) that allowed me to get my Bachelors Degree all while on active duty. I did do my MBA while working a full time job so I know the sacrifices you have made.
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PO1 (Join to see)
LCDR,
The opportunity does not infuriate me, its the opportunity given to someone who would otherwise choose to get out. The article essential read, I wanna go to Grad School or I am getting out.
The opportunity does not infuriate me, its the opportunity given to someone who would otherwise choose to get out. The article essential read, I wanna go to Grad School or I am getting out.
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He's in for another 3 years and better educated - who knows seeing how the Navy worked with him to meet his personal goals he just might stay in for 20. I've know many ring knockers punch out after 5. Also one needs to remember this guy is an outlier - this is not the case for all officers. The Navy is working to retain and develop its top junior officers
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PO1 (Join to see) This isn't too surprising, this was released 20 Aug 15, "The Pentagon wants to send more officers to earn graduate degrees at top-notch civilian universities, a key piece of soon-to-be released personnel reforms that could fundamentally alter the career tracks of senior military leaders."
Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/education/2015/08/20/graduate-school-proposals/32063579/
Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/education/2015/08/20/graduate-school-proposals/32063579/
DoD plans to send more officers to civilian grad schools
The Pentagon is preparing a plan to send more officers to earn graduate degrees at top-notch civilian universities, a key piece of soon-to-be
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PO1 (Join to see)
I have heard less then stellar opinions about NPS so civilian education is probably the way to go. My issue was the fact that we are talking about your military career getting in the way of your personal goals. As the saying goes, "If the Navy wanted you to have a wife, they would issue it to you in your sea bag." If you need an expensive gratis Masters Degree to keep your from resigning, maybe this line of work is not for you.
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PO1 (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see) I think either way it is a really hard decision to make. However, you can't tell me that if you were offered the chance to attend a top tier ivy league school to finish your Master's you would be conflicted as well. Then if the Navy wanted to keep their investment in you and offer to pay for that opportunity, well I don't know about you but I would take it in a heartbeat. And that saying, "If the Navy wanted you to have a wife, they would issue it to you in your sea bag." is just plain crap. We all know it and anyone who actually uses it or believes it....well they have lost a lot of my respect both as an individual and leader.
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PO1 (Join to see)
That was a joke. I'm happily married. It was used to point out that personal goals are not a typical military priority.
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PO1 (Join to see), believe it or not, the Army sends young CPT's to grad school every year, primarily law, business and logistics grad degree producing schools.
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