NCOER integrity; others writing a 1/1 for themselves when they don't deserve it? The NCOER is the NCO's report card, that could make you or break you. Do you think it's fair for you to do your best and recieve anything other than a 1/1from your rater while other subpar NCO's consistently write their own 1/1 NCOER's? Does this frustrate you?

NCOER integrity; others writing a 1/1 for themselves when they don't deserve it?

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Posted 12 y ago

What Also should be mentioned is the fact that different units have different standards for NCOER's some units state that if you had any issues ie you get hurt and bust tape during recovery you cannot receive 1-1. Or my favorite you and your rater don't agree on everything yet this subpar NCO whom is chummy with your rater receives the coveted 1-1 while you do not! when you clearly out performed him/her during the rater period minus the social activities section which is there but not there!

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SSG (Join to see)

12 y

Well said, SSG. I agree. Too many great NCOs are being overlooked in favor of the "favorite yet sub-par" NCO.

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CSM Mike Maynard

12 y

SSG Saunders, as a CSM, I review all NCOERs that written within a Bn. If a 1/1 is not justified and is only being given because of "chuminess", I let the Sr Rater know that their comments are not justifying the rating and they need to either re-look the accomplishments or re-calibrate their ratings. My job is to ensure the bullets paint the picture of the rating.

So, with that, I can honestly say, within my scope, the ratings NCOs are receiving are justified based on performance/contribution.

Now, you state that someone who "busts tape during recovery" is prevented from getting a 1-1. Based on the whole Soldier concept, I would definitely say that failure to maintain ABCP IAW Regulation would definitely be a reason to keep someone from getting a 1/1, just like failing an APFT, just like failing to train their Soldiers, just like failing to account for their Soldiers, just like about anything that they are a failure at.

How can we give a 1/1 to someone who has exceeded all Army standards and yet give a 1/1 to someone who is not only not exceeding, but isn't even meeting Army standards? Doesn't seem fair to the person giving that extra effort and exceeding standards.

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SSG (Join to see)

12 y

CSM that does not mean that Rating is changed it means the comments are changed. Also if an individual goes from not meeting to exceeding the standards in the rating period what is the correct rating for the period!

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CSM Mike Maynard

12 y

SSG Saunders, it could go either way - either their accomplishment never justified an Excellence and the rating needed to be changed or the rater need to do a better job of capturing the impact/accomplishment and the rating stayed the same.

As far as your question goes - I think of it along of the lines of a Soldier doing Guard Duty. If they failed to meet the standard (stayed awake/alert during duty), but then met the standard (stayed awake/alert during duty), how would you classify them?

Meet the Standard or does not Meet the Standard?

And this applies even more so when we talk about APFT/ABCP. An NCO (which means they have been in a few years and know the deal) has access to all the resources they need to meet the standard. We provide nutrition information, exercise information, we provide duty time and the biggest thing - they have all the non-duty time that they want to devote to meeting the standard.

Just doesn't seem to be an excuse for not MEETING the standard, not trying to say that everyone should meet a unit goal or get a patch or max, but just MEET the standard.

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SGT Ben Keen

Posted 12 y ago

Personally, I really never went for a 1/1. I saw a 1/1 as meaning I have learned everything there is to know about my job and how to lead service members. And honestly, unless I was the Post-9/11 version of Audie Murphy, I do not think I would deserve a 1/1. I think a 2/1 or 1/2 is a great score. It shows that you did well while leaving room for development.

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MSG (Join to see)

12 y

SGT Keen, the 1/1 rating on the NCOER addresses performance and potential and is based on the overall performance of the Soldier based on the five rated areas. It is not a measurement of perfection or a mastery of knowledge on behalf of the rated Soldier.

A Soldier can get a 2/1 which is not bad. This would equate to an NCOER with one and maybe two excellence bullets that are strongly supported. The Potential rating should never be a higher number than the performance rating. On the other hand, a 1/2 would be like saying an NCO did an outstanding job during this rated period, but is expected to perform at a lower level in the future or has a diminished potential. The proper rating would be 2/2. I have seen these common mistakes with NCOERs.

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SGT Ben Keen

12 y

Thanks for the clarification!

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SSG Jeffery Haynes

12 y

MSG,

What you said is true, but promotion boards look for that, and unless you have stellar NCOERs, you will be rated by the board lower than peers who have a 1/1. Long story short, they get promoted and the other NCO does not. Now that QMP has been reinstated this becomes an even more important issue.

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CSM Mike Maynard

12 y

SSG Haynes - have some faith, it's not all about the 1/1 in the Sr Rater portion, it is about the bullets and the message that is conveyed in those bullets.

When I was selected for SGM and the Academy, my last 5 NCOERs did not 5xExcellence (averaged about 4 on each one) and two of my NCOERs I was rated in a SFC position as a MSG.

So, I find it hard to believe that it is strictly about the ratings, it is about how well the impact you are making is communicated to the board.

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SGT Nathan Huff

Posted 12 y ago

you are one of the few who are honest.

I refused to write my own NCOER. I forced my first line to write it for me. Some first lines honored me by the write up and others did not deserve the rank they had.

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SGM Matthew Quick

Posted 12 y ago

Never was a big fan of NCOs putting down others and over inflating their own performances.

Are you honestly doing "your best" in the eyes of your rater or just in your terms...there could be a difference?

Are these NCOs 'subpar' in your 'opinion' or in the eyes of their raters?

Just seems like this is a personal venting post.

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SFC (Join to see)

12 y

SGM Quick, I agree with you that an individuals opinion may differ from the rater and SRs point of view. That is why when I was in that situation (writing my own eval) I wrote only the bullets and left the ratings blank to force the rating chain to give their own input. Also you're right this does seem like a personally opinionated post, however isn't the evaluation of an NCO's performance nothing more than a "professional vs personal" opinion of the rater and SR/

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CSM Colin Patterson

Edited 12 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

The entire evaluation system need to be revamped. SMA Chandler stated that the decision to go from wearing Berets with the ACU to patrol caps was based on feedback he received from soldiers on his listening tour. I think that evaluations is a more important topic than the headgear was and that he should embark on a listening tour to gain feedback on how we can improve, the evaluation and promotion system because it affects the entire force while the Beret issue did not impact the entire force.<div><br></div>

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SFC Gary Fox

Posted 12 y ago

NCOERs was an issue in every unit I was in. Too many Raters were too damn lazy to conduct quarterly counseling. When it came time to write the NCOER, these Raters had no idea what that NCO had accomplished during the rating period.

While I served as a 1SG, I required the Quarterly Counseling Statements to be included with the NCOER. I gave classes to NCOs on how and why quarterly counseling was an integral part of the NCOER and mentoring those they were rating.

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SFC Randy Purham

Posted 12 y ago

Yes SFC Butler, it does frustrate me. All the while that they are writing their own and getting promoted and/or getting preferential treatment I call them out on their "walk on water" performance when they can't conduct a simple task in that respective grade. At some point in time, we need to start shelling-out NCOs and Officers that conduct this kind of behavior and walk around like they are King/Queen Cotton, when they know good-in-hell well, they are not what they wrote on paper. Just my 2 cents. We can improve a little. Even if you had a stellar performance during that rating period, I think one should have a little modesty and downplay their reports, so it doesn't appear to be so inflated.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

My only issue with the NCOER
besides writing my own is how NCOs are rated. This has been brought up during
several NCOPDs that I have attended. If you have two NCOs we will use FT Bragg
and FT Campbell both are senior SSG 11Bs. These two NCOs are identical on their
ERB’s schools, pt, awards, duty positions etc. When it comes to the NCOER and
the possible promotion to SFC the rating system is flawed. How can we have an
honest rating of these two NCOs who are identical by two different leaders who see
different traits and attributes in the NCO? I have also had this discussion
with fellow NCOs across the Army that I have been assigned with as either peer,
senior or subordinate NCO. It just seems that there may be some “unfairness”
(new word) in the rating system.

Doing you best and say receiving a
2/2 or a 1/2 would I feel frustrated? Yes I have, do I sit back and think of
things that I may have could have done different? I do, it just sometimes falls
with the good ole boy system. I have been well above some other NCOs in my
Company and have been told this, yet since I rock the boat and speak out I did
not receive a 1/1 even though I was selected to SFC that year.

So until they figure a standardized
rating system that has one NCO that can view and see the potential in all of us
we must always strive for our best even though it is not good enough sometimes.

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CSM Mike Maynard

12 y

There never will be, nor can there be, a completely objective system when we involve humans in the process.

The best we can probably do will be implemented in some way or fashion when we transition to the next evolution of the 2166-8 - stratification.

The key will be in how we implement - The number of "1/1s" and "3/3s" that can be given out by (Rater/Sr Rater/Reviewer/CSM?) (think Sr Rater Profile for officers and ensuring a sufficient pool of "peers" to rate against so that the ratings actually mean something.

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SFC (Join to see)

12 y

CSM Maynard, I totally agree what I was hearing about and what I saw before my sweet recruiting detail that I am currently 2/3 d's through was the SR for say Squad Leaders who is the commander would do is ensure that there was only one 1/1 SL in his company. The justification was there is no way that more than one can be a 1/1. Silly right?

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SFC (Join to see)

12 y

CSM Maynard, I totally agree what I was hearing about and what I saw before my sweet recruiting detail that I am currently 2/3 d's through was the SR for say Squad Leaders who is the commander would do is ensure that there was only one 1/1 SL in his company. The justification was there is no way that more than one can be a 1/1. Silly right?

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

SFC Butler, IMO no, but then again I could be biased. I may have been doing my best and remaining in a comfortable, complacent position. Did I step out the box any, did I go above or beyond, did I challenge myself or my Soldiers?? Those are the things I could see preventing me from that 1/1. What I quantity/categorize as "my best", someone else could see as just meeting the standard.

Now when I see someone who hasn't put forth ANY effort to do anything... not teaching/ training/taking care of their Soldiers, not taking any add'l classes-personally or professionally, not making any attempt to grow and has a history of infractions get a 1/1, then "Houston, we have a problem."

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MSG Martinis Butler

Posted 12 y ago

It's frustrating to me but like I always say you can fool some of the people some of the time but you won't be able to fool all of the people all of the time.

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NCOER integrity; others writing a 1/1 for themselves when they don't deserve it?

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