Posted on Dec 24, 2013
NCOER integrity; others writing a 1/1 for themselves when they don't deserve it?
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The NCOER is the NCO's report card, that could make you or break you. Do you think it's fair for you to do your best and recieve anything other than a 1/1from your rater while other subpar NCO's consistently write their own 1/1 NCOER's? Does this frustrate you?
NCOER
NCOs
Integrity
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 39
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I have only ever had an issue with writing my own report or award. Apart from that I only care that it is accurate. I think that this boils down to leaders not being checked up the chain to ensure that they are doing the right things. I have been chewed out for a legitimate mistake on a -8-1 when inside I am rolling my eyes because if you check my packet my PSG doesn't have one for me. I have heard the argument that if I haven't been counseled that it is my fault which may partially be true, but you cannot blame the soldier to be counseled more that the counselor.
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We'll this is my 2 cents. Our raters are suppose to do our counseling, initial and 1/4 to tell you what you did great and what and how to improve on your job so you can do your job better and earn a great NCOER. But that shouldn't be the reason you should want to do a better job. It's to make sure your Battle is not carrying you and doing their job as well. I can't tell you when the last time I have sat down with my rater and done some real one on one. But like a comment stated,there are favorites and ones who have their head so far up the back side of leaders they could tell you what they ate when they fart. It has more to do what you say to stroke the ego of certain people than the truth. When peers are bragging about their NCOER and you know the only reason is because they hang out and get drunk with the leaders. What happen to "it's not personal, its business". A NCOER has almost lost its value. Just saying.
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I worked for the federal govt as well & our yearly evaluations were completed by ourselves. We didn't have a supervisor who was present while we worked. They had no idea what we did. That is called management, not leadership. In the Army it used to be completed by our first line supervisor & then discussed with the rated NCO before a final signature. If supervisors are not with the troops in their daily duties, it is failure of leadership just like others have written here. Just think of the up & coming scum of the earth NCO who could write whatever they want on their eval & get away with it. They are at fault for being that way & trying to pass them selves off as great but the oversight of a proper leader should be there to prevent this.
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I think the real problem
here is leadership that is too lazy to complete NCOER's on their subordinates
and tell them to just write their own. In my 26 years in the Army, I had
seen this over and over again with Soldiers, both enlisted and officers.
Luckily, I was blessed with excellent leaders that mentored me.
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That would aggravate me, to the core, SFC. It would push me to strive for a tighter ship under my watch.
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
Well, I wouldn't necessarily entrust my subordinates to counsel themselves on their own performance. It's my personal and professional responsibility to mentor those under my charge. In so doing, it's my responsibility to communicate with my soldiers and determine what his/her personal and professional goals are. Once determined, i have a starting place to develop him/her as a leader using additional, short term, professional goals. It is my opinion that if I am to mentor and counsel individuals, it's my job, not his/hers to write his/her own evaluations. I may not be able to make others do what I feel is right, but I can influence what is under my control. I can lead by example.
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CSM Mike Maynard
You are exactly right SPC Birkinine - it is our duty as leaders and supervisors to counsel our Soldiers - and that is the purpose of the NCOER - as a counseling tool to improve performance.
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Some one responded about MTOE/TOE positions listed on there NCOER that did not exist. I have seen the same thing, but that is not the Soldiers fault fully. My last command had many made up positions that Senior people made up so they could keep said NCO in the command for an extra body, vs allowing them to move to a location were they could actually fill a slot. So honestly it is the commands slot for allowing it to be over strength and a unit will Soldiers not authorized on the MTOE. Secondly it is the Soldiers fault for not catching that or at least asking.
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Overall I agree with your opinion SFC Butler, however (and unfortunately) I believe we (our senior leadership) allow this issue take place.
I can remember being in this situation a few years back where my rater left (PCS) without completing my eval. Now a little background in this situation, is that because I knew that he was leaving 2-3 months prior I took the initiative and did the leg work by completing the "shell" which was simply the front portion (based upon my previous eval, where he was also the rater) and my APFT/HT/WT data. I additionally gave him a word document that had each area on the back broken down and containing 4-6 bullet comments (based on the counselings) to include SR bullets as well each to use as a guide. He had this information for months and did nothing with it. I spoke to him repeatedly about this, where he told me he would get it done. Spoke to the SR and reviewer (who ironically had just completed his (my rater's) eval and award) without any resolution.
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I do agree their is a lot of shadiness when it comes to our report cards from what I have seen. I have seldom seen the process done correctly (from quarterly counseling to writing the eval). I also have been in this situation but like SFC Gates, I also choose to (instead completing the eval myself) leave the ratings and S/R portion blank. While I understand this is incorrect and not the way the system was setup to work. I think it is beneficial for my direct input (as far as the bullet comments) to go on the eval.
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I worked in S1 for years, I never saw a honest NCOER. Most NCOs wrote there own and lied on it. and the few who let there Seniors write it for them (as they should have) received horrid reviews. Few properly processed there NCOERS. Over all it was a joke at how much of a lie and how poorly they were written. We at S1 used to sit down and laugh about NCOERS (and OERS) because we knew the people and knew how much of a load of Doo Doo most of there NCOERS were.
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MSG Martinis Butler
I have seen some honest one but I must agree ice seen more dishonest ones than honest. I've seen first hand where guys would have their NCOER prewritten before the current one has even been sent to HRC.
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SGM Matthew Quick
SGT Huff,
How can you determine if an NCOER is truly honest or not? Did you personally oversee the rated NCO's performances?
How can you determine if an NCOER is truly honest or not? Did you personally oversee the rated NCO's performances?
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SGT Nathan Huff
MSG (p) I have seen what they actually did vs what they had on there NCOER. When your NCOE in S1 cant even operate a spread sheet, and continual breaks the trust with the Soldiers and lies to cover who own rear. ..... it is all in the eyes of the beholder. Some Chains of command look at the NCOERs and others just sign on the dotted line. So in the end, how many fudged there NCOER and had there ERB altered illegally to obtain the next rank. Not all I am sure, but I have sen a few.
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