Posted on Feb 22, 2014
Off Base In Uniform Hours After Close of Business (COB)? Epidemic?
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After coming back from deployment I don't know if I am being too harsh or if I have just become overly military minded but, everywhere I go I am seeing soldiers, lower enlisted to senior enlisted and officer grades alike, everywhere in their uniforms. At first seeing people at Wal-Mart and at fast food restaurants wasn't a big deal but, I have started to see soldiers at the mall (20-30min drive from post) and even a few coming out of the movie theaters!? The soldier in me wants me to pull that person aside and ask why they are still in uniform regardless of rank but, so far I have left it alone mainly because most are with family or multiple people and calling them out feels a little over the top. Is this a big problem where you are stationed? What do you think should be said to these soldiers if anything? <div><br><div>If you feel that this is a good/reasonable post please vote it up and give me your honest opinions thanks!</div><div>***UPDATE*** Made my first correction tonight!!! With great TACT may I add.</div><div>This took place at the Wal-Mart off of Wilma Rudolph around 2130.</div><div><br></div><div>I walked past this sergeant (E-5) and knew I had to say something, I asked him if he was off duty and he said yes he was, soo I said, okay well I work at Division and we are not allowed to wear our uniforms after duty hours, I don't know your situation but it is almost 2200 and I do not believe this is authorized.</div><div>He smirked and kind of chuckled and said well I need a few groceries then I am headed to the house. I said roger that sergeant I didn't know if you were new to Campbell or something so this was just a professional courtesy have a good night and he didn't reply. </div><div><br></div><div>Then I walked off and snapped this picture</div></div>
Rules
Uniforms
Customs and Courtesies
Integrity
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 187
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Personally I don't see a huge issue with being in uniform to go to Walmart after work to pick up a few quick qrocery items on the way home or even having a bite to eat at a restaurant with family after work, but I have a problem with people going to the movies in uniform or walking around the mall. That's not to say I have never done so. I have picked up some jewelry at the mall for my girlfriend's birthday, but it was paid for in advance so my stop was quick.
It's a hard decision to make when it comes to approaching the person you see in uniform. I have always looked at it like this: Are they acting the fool or in a manner that would embarrass the Armed Forces? If yes then say something. If no and they're just minding their own business then let them be. There is a good chance that approaching them in a public place about your disagreement with them being in uniform will lead to a not so friendly encounter which could then escalate into an embarrassing moment for all involved.
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I do not see anything wrong with wearing the "work" uniform (ACU, cammies, etc) for the purpose of pride and depending on where you are stationed. Currently I am stationed at Ft Detrick, one of the Army's hidden gems, it does not have a chow hall, and only a small PX with Subway, and Burger King, include the Commensarry and those are your food options. Personnel up and down the rank structure here go off post for lunch, and because we have many 24 hour locations dinner in their "work" uniform. The better part of this is Ft. Detrick also houses Navy, Marines, Air Force. They all go eat off post in uniform as well. No one is attempting to get free stuff, no one is attempting to be a bad ass. Everyone is attempting to get something to eat and get back to work as quickly as possible.
After hours (CoB) I see the masses say it is wrong. Unless someone is just doing wrong, why is it unprofessional that we are not hard nosed killers all the time? I have not done it, but if i went to the movies and dinner with my family, it shows I have pride in what i do, and I am a caring family man. To those preaching OPSEC, trust me, if someone wanted to follow because they thought you were a valid target they'd follow you from base.
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SPC Christopher Smith
We have all seen or heard of the tv show "What Would You Do?" have we not? There is a great clip of someone in uniform at the "wrong" place to many of you, in uniform, speaking up and doing a great thing. If we can police the world, we should be able to wear our uniform with pride, and help our own out like this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ifSmTYDWQ
"What Would You Do?" by ABC is a hidden camera series where people are put into ethical dilemmas, given the choice between passively accepting injustice and ...
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SPC Gamble, as cheesy as it sounds, you are the future of the Army and NCO Corps. You should say something if it is wrong using tact and keeping your military bearing. Letting things like this go on knowing it's wrong is what builds toxic leadership. I dont know the regs for Campbell, but here in USARAK, our blue book states 1900 is the cut off for the class c uniform off post. However, you still see Soldiers in PTs, ACUs, ASUs off post on weekends, 2100, and in McDonalds. Why attract more attention to yourself then needed? I understand getting essential items or gas, but wearing your uniform for no reason at the movies, or the club, etc is just and epidemic. It's a problem here in Alaska that we as leaders enforce all over, however still is an issue as Im sure it is for many different post.
My personal opinion is this....going off post for lunch, or after COB to get a few things is acceptable in my book. However, cruising the mall, going to the movies, dining in Applebee's of other restaurants in uniform after the cut off time is just asking for attention that isn't needed. That uniform you wear, you represent yourself and the U.S. Army as a whole however the public just see's "Soldiers" are out of control when something happens instead of the individual. This problem can be stopped with the great influence of leadership, mentoring, and guidance because your Soldiers are a direct reflection of their leadership. So if leaders are informing there Soldiers that it's wrong and setting the example, than hopefully the Soldier will see this an reflect off of it. Again this is just my opinion.
My personal opinion is this....going off post for lunch, or after COB to get a few things is acceptable in my book. However, cruising the mall, going to the movies, dining in Applebee's of other restaurants in uniform after the cut off time is just asking for attention that isn't needed. That uniform you wear, you represent yourself and the U.S. Army as a whole however the public just see's "Soldiers" are out of control when something happens instead of the individual. This problem can be stopped with the great influence of leadership, mentoring, and guidance because your Soldiers are a direct reflection of their leadership. So if leaders are informing there Soldiers that it's wrong and setting the example, than hopefully the Soldier will see this an reflect off of it. Again this is just my opinion.
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A1C Michael David Severson
Sgt, could you clarify this statement you made?
"That uniform you wear, you represent yourself and the U.S. Army as a
whole however the public just see's "Soldiers" are ***out of control*** when
something happens instead of the individual."
When I make any assertion, I will always have some sort of empirical proof behind my words, to ensure they have authority, and not conjecture.
Is there some sort of compilation or data that supports the statement of soldiers being "out of control," which suggests that overall public opinion asserts such an statement?
I live literally 2 city streets from an active Naval base. Whenever I meet these sailors in uniform, they are overwhelmingly proper in their bearing, polite, and also helpful.
I also interact with them in many volunteer activities around the area here, and when doing so, they are in uniform to present a positive image to the community as they volunteer their services aside from regular duty assignments.
As such, we see them as an asset to the community where they work and live, and not a liability.
As a Veteran and a member of a community with great affinity for active duty personnel, I understand all of the arguments presented in this matter.
Due to my former role and associated SC in the USAF, OPSEC was a paramount concern for me especially. However, even with all of this, I never faced any directives about a time frame regarding my uniform.
I worked variable shifts because of high demand for my services at all hours, and I was always in transit from one place to another quite extensively.
It would be counter-intuitive to change my clothing repeatedly in a day's time, or to consider changing when I was off base at the oddball hours after 12-16 hour shifts at times.
Yet, even in the face of exhaustion after a long day, I always maintained my bearing while taking care of any details off base, due to extremely slim time constraints I faced. I was always running from once place to another, and never recall lingering anywhere for an extended amount of time.
To wrap this up, What I have observed here is a wide variety of opinion that reflects personal interpretation of regulations. As one individual stated, some regulations are guidelines, and not law (UCMJ-stipulated specifically).
A civilian version is "Best Practices" guidelines which ensure quality and professionalism related to services rendered, etc. Discretion is always the better part of valor in every situation.
I would suggest from my own personal observation and frequent contact over my 53 years of lifetime with active duty members, that an overwhelming majority of cases about uniforms are really a non-issue regarding conduct and their uniform.
I will add one quick caveat: Military members OUT of uniform (partially dressed or undone uniform parts) is a more prevalent issue. That demands attention, of course.
To revisit the OPSEC concern, unless there is a KNOWN threat in the area that elevates a risk factor for all service members, enforcing a ban on military clothing off base would be superfluous.
Due again to my security clearance at a particular base I was stationed at, I was advised of certain risk elements, due to a diverse population base that included a large amount of foreign nationals.
For this reason, I had a specific security briefing with OSI personnel who defined the security protocol I needed to follow. I am not at liberty to discuss it, so I'll leave it there.
Again, discretion, awareness, and professionalism ruled my day at all times, while having latitude for my daily needs and specific activities. Wisdom to discern and apply all the above is suggested, rather than a "bloodhound" approach to gig military members without seeing the bigger picture. Enough said.
"That uniform you wear, you represent yourself and the U.S. Army as a
whole however the public just see's "Soldiers" are ***out of control*** when
something happens instead of the individual."
When I make any assertion, I will always have some sort of empirical proof behind my words, to ensure they have authority, and not conjecture.
Is there some sort of compilation or data that supports the statement of soldiers being "out of control," which suggests that overall public opinion asserts such an statement?
I live literally 2 city streets from an active Naval base. Whenever I meet these sailors in uniform, they are overwhelmingly proper in their bearing, polite, and also helpful.
I also interact with them in many volunteer activities around the area here, and when doing so, they are in uniform to present a positive image to the community as they volunteer their services aside from regular duty assignments.
As such, we see them as an asset to the community where they work and live, and not a liability.
As a Veteran and a member of a community with great affinity for active duty personnel, I understand all of the arguments presented in this matter.
Due to my former role and associated SC in the USAF, OPSEC was a paramount concern for me especially. However, even with all of this, I never faced any directives about a time frame regarding my uniform.
I worked variable shifts because of high demand for my services at all hours, and I was always in transit from one place to another quite extensively.
It would be counter-intuitive to change my clothing repeatedly in a day's time, or to consider changing when I was off base at the oddball hours after 12-16 hour shifts at times.
Yet, even in the face of exhaustion after a long day, I always maintained my bearing while taking care of any details off base, due to extremely slim time constraints I faced. I was always running from once place to another, and never recall lingering anywhere for an extended amount of time.
To wrap this up, What I have observed here is a wide variety of opinion that reflects personal interpretation of regulations. As one individual stated, some regulations are guidelines, and not law (UCMJ-stipulated specifically).
A civilian version is "Best Practices" guidelines which ensure quality and professionalism related to services rendered, etc. Discretion is always the better part of valor in every situation.
I would suggest from my own personal observation and frequent contact over my 53 years of lifetime with active duty members, that an overwhelming majority of cases about uniforms are really a non-issue regarding conduct and their uniform.
I will add one quick caveat: Military members OUT of uniform (partially dressed or undone uniform parts) is a more prevalent issue. That demands attention, of course.
To revisit the OPSEC concern, unless there is a KNOWN threat in the area that elevates a risk factor for all service members, enforcing a ban on military clothing off base would be superfluous.
Due again to my security clearance at a particular base I was stationed at, I was advised of certain risk elements, due to a diverse population base that included a large amount of foreign nationals.
For this reason, I had a specific security briefing with OSI personnel who defined the security protocol I needed to follow. I am not at liberty to discuss it, so I'll leave it there.
Again, discretion, awareness, and professionalism ruled my day at all times, while having latitude for my daily needs and specific activities. Wisdom to discern and apply all the above is suggested, rather than a "bloodhound" approach to gig military members without seeing the bigger picture. Enough said.
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MSG (Join to see)
As my CSM always tells us every week; When we as Soldiers mess up or act out in public wearing our uniform, they dont see PVT joe Snuffy messed up. They see a U.S. Soldier just disrespected someone's wife, or talked bad about the Army, etc. These examples are some thats always in the air here in Alaska. It's one of the reasons we tell our Soldiers dont attract unnecessary attention to yourselves especially when here in Alaska we have ALOT of stores/shops that do not like military nor support it. The Natives hate us here and it's an on going problem as Soldier's continue to leave post in uniform and start fights in bars, or cause problems in Wal-Mart.
Im not saying all Soldier's have these intentions or all Soldiers that leave post after the cut off time are turds. However, rules are rules and we as leaders must enforce them and set that example for our Soldiers. If not then examples like I mentioned before will happen and unnecessary attention wonders right back on the commanders desk.
Im not saying all Soldier's have these intentions or all Soldiers that leave post after the cut off time are turds. However, rules are rules and we as leaders must enforce them and set that example for our Soldiers. If not then examples like I mentioned before will happen and unnecessary attention wonders right back on the commanders desk.
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SFC (Join to see)
Let us not address the inappropriate behavior itself, merely distance them from being publicly associated with the organization.
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When MG William Hartzog was the CG of Fort Riley / 1st ID (91-93) he encouraged the wear of the uniform off post to create an environment of we are all one. Not us verse them in the local communities surrounding Fort Riley. This was also the time when Riley was trying to expand. Later CG's Robles, House continued this policy.
Don't know if this was good or bad idea as I had just come from 3/75. Where you went from the unit to your off-post quarters with no stop except for gas if needed.
They also had BRO time (Big Red One) early release from duty on Thursdays.
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This is so wrong, my last duty station Ft Hood had courtesy patrol just for these Soldiers. You should get off work and go home and change if you are going to the movies. I can understand going to get food for the family or gas, and Wal-Mart is a little far for me since most of us don't just go in Wal-Mart to get a few things we end up spending some time in there. I suggest that the next time you see this you stop and use tact and inform them that they are out of regulation and if needed get their unit and 1SG name.
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We need to check the Service and local directives before we question a service member wearing their uniform off duty in the local community. Things have changed a lot in the last 40 years. It appears wearing a work/combat uniform outside of the installation for shopping or other off duty activities is okay. I don’t like it but if the uniform is properly worn there’s no grounds for comment or objection.
This change has been progressive since the 1970s. When I was a LT in 1970 we could wear work uniforms off base only to commute to/from work. By 1980 we were allowed to make short stops for fuel, food, dry cleaning, etc in uniform on our way to/from work. Service uniform was okay for wear in the civilian community off duty, but not in establishments of Ill repute (bars, gentlemen’s clubs, etc). When we invaded Afghanistan all the Services Started allowing office workers to wear work/combat uniforms for daily duty. They also loosened up the rules about wearing these uniforms into the civilian communities. So today I very seldom see a service member in the Service uniform anywhere.
This change has been progressive since the 1970s. When I was a LT in 1970 we could wear work uniforms off base only to commute to/from work. By 1980 we were allowed to make short stops for fuel, food, dry cleaning, etc in uniform on our way to/from work. Service uniform was okay for wear in the civilian community off duty, but not in establishments of Ill repute (bars, gentlemen’s clubs, etc). When we invaded Afghanistan all the Services Started allowing office workers to wear work/combat uniforms for daily duty. They also loosened up the rules about wearing these uniforms into the civilian communities. So today I very seldom see a service member in the Service uniform anywhere.
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We were required to be in uniform and in possession of a pass at all times of base. I guess times have changed
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I retired in 1995. At the time you could only wear BDU’s to and from your quarters if residing off post. Prior to that, you wouldn’t dare be caught dead in Fatigues or (Hospital Whites) off post. I was surprised when I started to see service members in combat uniforms in flight status, surprising kids/spouses/family members, and/or doing any type of civilian establishment visits. Times change but the soldier in the picture was wearing running shoes, camo pants and don’t know what the jacket was. I’d called him out as well. If your in public, please be proud and wear your uniform correctly as befits the situation. Thank you
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After reading the comments The navy is the same thing I saw a ship mate in his blue cammos in the mall me and my friend just looked and said what’s s- bag getting a few things in a store on your way back home is fine
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