Posted on Nov 14, 2014
Officer/NCO Animosity: Have you experienced it? How did you handle it?
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In the TRADOC environment here at Fort Gordon I am seeing an increasing trend of Lieutenant students that I engage in mentoring, who bring up that they are told by some of their Captain "mentors" that NCO's are *expletives* who will string you up or let you hang yourself in a heartbeat and not to trust them.
I remedy what I can in my mentoring to tell these young officers to disregard those statements. I point them to numerous doctrinal items and I have been giving them a book that was put together at the pentagon years ago which gives some wisdom to Officer and NCO alike in regards to their relationships with one another, and how to achieve the best results. I tell them to know what to expect from their NCO's, and know what they expect from you, and ensure that you hold each other to it.
The NCO's job is to mentor, train, advise, and assist the officer... not hang them out to dry.
I feel like there is a growing rift between our Officer and Enlisted Corps, and this division surely cannot lead anywhere good.
My questions to the NCO's and Officers out there:
Have you experienced this animosity toward NCO's? If so, how did you handle it?
Have you seen the flip-side of this where NCO's have a severe distaste for Officers? If so, how did you handle it?
I remedy what I can in my mentoring to tell these young officers to disregard those statements. I point them to numerous doctrinal items and I have been giving them a book that was put together at the pentagon years ago which gives some wisdom to Officer and NCO alike in regards to their relationships with one another, and how to achieve the best results. I tell them to know what to expect from their NCO's, and know what they expect from you, and ensure that you hold each other to it.
The NCO's job is to mentor, train, advise, and assist the officer... not hang them out to dry.
I feel like there is a growing rift between our Officer and Enlisted Corps, and this division surely cannot lead anywhere good.
My questions to the NCO's and Officers out there:
Have you experienced this animosity toward NCO's? If so, how did you handle it?
Have you seen the flip-side of this where NCO's have a severe distaste for Officers? If so, how did you handle it?
Mentorship
Officer
Enlisted
Professionalism
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 60
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SSG Cherry....good on your for taking the initiative to mentor young officers, and you could be more correct in your statement it is the NCO's job to mentor, train, advise, and assist us officers in our careers. As you know, there is an NCO assigned as a "battle buddy" to ever officer from the platoon leader all the way to the Chief of Staff of the Army. This is by design and for a good reason. Especially as young officers, we need the experience and wisdom of the NCO corps to guide us and provide the honest response to how our operations will affect our Soldiers.
What it sounds like is that those captains have had negative experiences with NCOs and unfortunately think that that is the way the NCO corps is. Very unfortunate.
Thanks again for doing what you are doing as a mentor and an NCO!
What it sounds like is that those captains have had negative experiences with NCOs and unfortunately think that that is the way the NCO corps is. Very unfortunate.
Thanks again for doing what you are doing as a mentor and an NCO!
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SSG Jason Cherry
LTC (Join to see), sir, thank you for your words of affirmation. I am actually not involved in the BOLC course, but I am always on staff duty, and I get the chance to sit with 2 or 3 fresh LT's per duty period. As an instructor for other courses, I offer them technical experience to help with their coursework. As an NCO, I offer them mentorship towards what they can expect and what is expected of them. I feel that if I can make an impact, and help steer these fresh minds clear of the minefields that others set, that mentorship will be paid out exponentially over time by mentoring others.
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SFC (Join to see)
Yes and no. Depending on the situation and location. In combat, the officers and men were close and worked as a team. Everybody, under a good officer, had a sense of humor and pulled together. Under a lousy officer, nobody laughed, kidded or had fun. You would always tell a low morale maker officer because they were always "by the book" or too strict and would fail to improvise or be inventive.
In Reserve and National Guard units, things were a little different. Officers who had done some time as EM made better officers than those who came in and went immediately to OCS or other promotion schools. But, once again, those officers who were inventive, cared about the troops and worked as a team member (led by example) earned the respect of their troops did well. These are the ones I would hope got promoted to the higher ranks because they had common sense.
In Reserve and National Guard units, things were a little different. Officers who had done some time as EM made better officers than those who came in and went immediately to OCS or other promotion schools. But, once again, those officers who were inventive, cared about the troops and worked as a team member (led by example) earned the respect of their troops did well. These are the ones I would hope got promoted to the higher ranks because they had common sense.
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SFC (Join to see)
Kudos to you both!! Heartwarming to hear a fellow NCO doing the corps just and a senior officer first in line to show what seems to be unwavering support. I have just recently PCSd out of TRADOC (former SGL at AMEDD NCOA), my battles and I did our damnest to close this rift. Higlighting the effort to mold leaders. It does take both sides to change the culture...NCOs to do right and most importantly Officers to have their back. Afterall, a Backbone is only as steady with strong muscles to support it.
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Haters gotta hate. Lead by example and keep those standards high within the NCO Corps. The vast majority of those Officers with that attitude of their NCO's will peak in their careers at the junior levels and then find the door out. Hopefully they don't poison the minds of too many of their subordinates. We need all the quality Officers we can get. You just keep on keeping on.
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SFC (Join to see)
I would assume that you are correct on this point SFC Mark Merino ... another assumption would be that those particular officers (the ones that their NCOs let them "hang themselves") are the ones who come off with the "I already know everything and outrank you anyway" attitude.
The partnership serves a clear purpose, to use our practical experience, in order to mentor and develop the officer to being a better leader. We do still, however, encounter those who only look at the rank structure and take the "I'M THE BOSS" approach to everything, while refusing to listen.
The partnership serves a clear purpose, to use our practical experience, in order to mentor and develop the officer to being a better leader. We do still, however, encounter those who only look at the rank structure and take the "I'M THE BOSS" approach to everything, while refusing to listen.
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CPO (Join to see)
I've seen the same in my service. Those JO's who constantly butt heads with their NCO's seem to find that the military is not for them and they move on. I've never met an O4 or above who didn't value the input of senior enlisted.
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I can see why that would happen. I see Sergeants here, I wouldn't call them NCOs because they lack professionalism, that think LTs are worthless. I wish some of these keyboard warriors were around in person. I doubt they would be saying the same stuff. But when you have an SFC that treats this LT like crap what would you expect. That LT will be a CPT soon. Then he will have the power to do what he is doing. It is not right at all. What kills me is then the NCOs will blame him for being a jerk but he is a product of NCOs. They were there to mentor him. Instead they bullied him.
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SSG (Join to see)
Honestly it is going to happen, and it is big army s doing. Today nco s have college education and are older and more experienced than 01 a and 02s and a lot of times 03s. When the officers ask nco s to do the same jobs as officers, and warrant officers, but look at the pay disparity. Do u really blame the nco s? Traditionally officers had better educations than nco s but today that is not true, plus an officer can get promoted from 01 to 03 by pretty much having a pulse, what is the success rate of promotions for officers 85 percent or so, what is it for nco s maybe 5 percent the system needs to be fixed.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - You are right in some regards but there is also some knowledge that officers have that NCOs don't. My infantry officer course was 4 months long. Now it is 5 months. I will say that there is a lot of knowledge passed on to the officers that NCOs don't get. Then you have Captain Career Course. NCOs don't get any of that level of professional education. I was a SSG and I thought I know it all and I could be an officer easily. That was not the case. I have been an officer for about 3 years now. I also have a tour in as a PL. I can say I am now at a level that is beyond most NCOs. The issue at times is that the roles of NCO really don't over lap with what an Officer does. The execution of a mission does but the proper planning does not. I would just ask an NCO to a Enemy Situational Template with a Redbook and then you see were the divide starts. But so many times times it is not done. At face value you don't think officers do much but when it comes time to do officer stuff it isn't that easy.
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SSG (Join to see)
I see what you are saying to a point 1lt Rosa, but at the same time it is not like nco s can not learn what officers are taught. In the maintenance field nco s train officers, and I do not get mad doing this I would rather show an officer the right way, but I disagree that at least in the maintenance field that an officer does much that an nco does not do.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - One thing that you have to see is that we are on two different paths. We going on far different roles as we promote. NCOs really don't get to a strategic level. Sure they aid that officer that is in a role and they are needed to do so but by the time an Officer becomes an S3 the is far from anything that NCOs do. A PL can be replaced by an NCO. I wouldn't disagree with you on that but just look as an XO. What is there on the NCO that compares. So at that point the Officer start to split and drift away on his path. And it only grows farther away from there.
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