Posted on Jul 27, 2018
Once a soldier knowingly takes an APFT for Record, can it be removed?
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By reg, Traditional national guard soldiers are only required to take MINIMUM one APFT a year. My Battalion takes two for record, one every six months. No one knows where this policy came from or can find anything in writing stating we have to. It’s commanders discretion and this is the way it’s always been.
I have a soldier. Notorious for failing PT. Hasn’t passed for three years straight until I became the training NCO. I trained with him for five months and the day of his ETS (FEB 2018), he finally passes for record. Hallelujah!! He re enlists, finally gets pinned as an E-5. Well deserved.
Come May 2018, three months later- we have our unit record APFT. He KNOWINGLY takes it for record again. Fails. I input his data into the system and flag him for not passing.
He volunteers for ADOS, which in my BN is a privilege. You must be in good unit standing with no flagging actions to be placed on orders.
I tell him he can’t go on orders Bc he’s not passing. He said, “I spoke to the readiness NCO and she said the last APFT doesn’t count.” I go into the system and he’s not flagged anymore. Come to find out, the readiness NCO removes the flag and APFT completely. Reason being- he already took his one APFT in February so there’s no reason why he should have taken it in May. I find the hard copy of the 705- it shows his raw scores but doesn’t designate diagnostic or record AND is not signed by any NCOIC.
Who’s in the wrong here?
Yes- he didn’t have a 8 month gap between records but the only reason why he took two was Bc he knowingly took two. Feb was to stay in service (he was already three years with no passing score) and May was to get back in track with the unit.
i understand doing what’s best for the soldiers interest, but I feel as if my integrity is being compromised. He got pinned as an NCO and that’s not something I believe should be taken lightly. Need advice!
I have a soldier. Notorious for failing PT. Hasn’t passed for three years straight until I became the training NCO. I trained with him for five months and the day of his ETS (FEB 2018), he finally passes for record. Hallelujah!! He re enlists, finally gets pinned as an E-5. Well deserved.
Come May 2018, three months later- we have our unit record APFT. He KNOWINGLY takes it for record again. Fails. I input his data into the system and flag him for not passing.
He volunteers for ADOS, which in my BN is a privilege. You must be in good unit standing with no flagging actions to be placed on orders.
I tell him he can’t go on orders Bc he’s not passing. He said, “I spoke to the readiness NCO and she said the last APFT doesn’t count.” I go into the system and he’s not flagged anymore. Come to find out, the readiness NCO removes the flag and APFT completely. Reason being- he already took his one APFT in February so there’s no reason why he should have taken it in May. I find the hard copy of the 705- it shows his raw scores but doesn’t designate diagnostic or record AND is not signed by any NCOIC.
Who’s in the wrong here?
Yes- he didn’t have a 8 month gap between records but the only reason why he took two was Bc he knowingly took two. Feb was to stay in service (he was already three years with no passing score) and May was to get back in track with the unit.
i understand doing what’s best for the soldiers interest, but I feel as if my integrity is being compromised. He got pinned as an NCO and that’s not something I believe should be taken lightly. Need advice!
APFT
PFT
00F: Drill Sergeant
Drill Sergeant
PRT (Army)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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It's worth noting that your battalion can (and probably should) administer two APFTs for record each year, in order to make sure that everybody gets a chance to take one within the 14 month maximum window. BUT, they should also make sure that they're following AR 350-1 and not considering an APFT inside the 8 month window as for record. It's definitely the commander's prerogative to make everybody come out and do the APFT as a unit twice a year, but it's not within his discretion to administer an APFT for record less than 8 months after a member has already taken a record APFT.
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It doesn't matter whether he knowingly took a second or not. The text of AR 350-1 says: "A minimum of 8 months will separate record tests with no more than 14 months between record tests for other RC Soldiers (less IRR)." It says "will separate" not "can separate". It doesn't say, "Soldiers can take a record test 3 months later if they do it knowingly." By regulation, it CAN'T be a record APFT, whether he thought it was or not. If the NCOIC had marked the hard copy as record and had signed it, it still wouldn't be a record APFT.
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Respectfully, unless it’s different than active duty, a few things don’t make sense,
You write that you flag the soldier, and the readiness NCO simply lifted his flag. However, from 600-8-2,
“b. The Soldier’s commander, a general officer, a commandant, or the head of a DA staff or field operating agency can direct the initiation of a Flag. Authentication of the DA Form 268 initiating the Flag will be in accordance with paragraph 2–5.”
“(1) Only officers authorized to direct initiation of a Flag may direct removal of a Flag (for example, the unit commander, a general officer, commandant, or head of a DA staff or field operating agency) unless otherwise directed by this regulation or Commander, HRC (AHRC–PDV–PS).”
That just doesn’t sound right. Additionally, his 705 wasn’t signed. So you might as well had numbers written on a napkin. The soldier was a PT failure for years. Respectfully, it sounds like your unit just isn’t...right.
Best of luck.
You write that you flag the soldier, and the readiness NCO simply lifted his flag. However, from 600-8-2,
“b. The Soldier’s commander, a general officer, a commandant, or the head of a DA staff or field operating agency can direct the initiation of a Flag. Authentication of the DA Form 268 initiating the Flag will be in accordance with paragraph 2–5.”
“(1) Only officers authorized to direct initiation of a Flag may direct removal of a Flag (for example, the unit commander, a general officer, commandant, or head of a DA staff or field operating agency) unless otherwise directed by this regulation or Commander, HRC (AHRC–PDV–PS).”
That just doesn’t sound right. Additionally, his 705 wasn’t signed. So you might as well had numbers written on a napkin. The soldier was a PT failure for years. Respectfully, it sounds like your unit just isn’t...right.
Best of luck.
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