Posted on Mar 24, 2014
SFC Operations Ncoic
116K
83
54
4
4
0
So I was having a discussion at the office about NCOER's and placing APFT scores on them. It seems that we are being told to place all scores on the NCOER now, not just to quantify an excellence block. Seeing as I have a P2 profile and only complete pushups and the walk it doesn't seem right that I will only receive credit for one event vs a Soldier who can score on all three. I can only receive a GO/NO-GO regardless of how fast I can walk.

I know having a P2 shouldn't be a discriminator, but it seems that a lot of leaders (both NCO and officer) have a prejudice against Soldiers who cannot keep up with them do to lingering injuries. And stating, "regardless of P2 limiting profile he was able to..." seems to lead the door open for someone to think that the NCO is broke and can't hang with the young troops - which is true, to an extent.

So, my question here is complicated. Should a PT score be mandatory for the NCOER? Should the alternate events be scored? Should you identify on the NCOER that the NCO holds a P2 profile? Should not being able to perform the 3 event APFT be a discriminator?

Thoughts?


Posted in these groups: P542 APFTPushup-improvement Profiles1efa5058 NCOER
Avatar_feed
Responses: 18
WO1 Humint Technician
19
19
0
I posted a similar thread now that I am on a perm profile. My solution for one of my high speed SFC who was an amazing walker was I put " o scored 100 points in the pushup and situp events and walked in XX:XX, the fastest walker in the company" and justified an excellent. She also was promoted from SSG to SFC with that NCOER as her last one.
(19)
Comment
(0)
1SG Military Police
1SG (Join to see)
5 y
Does it justify an excellence though? My thoughts are no.
(0)
Reply
(1)
MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
5 y
yes it justifies this, some of use old farts still exist, in can do the 2.5 walk in 30 miutes or better, my question is can you, the walk in my opinion is tuffer than the run
(4)
Reply
(0)
MSG Carolyn Emery
MSG Carolyn Emery
>1 y
There is much more to the section of the NCOER than just the APFt being the only factor considered to be excellence
(0)
Reply
(0)
1SG Military Police
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
since they updated the NCOER this post is obsolete
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
8
8
0
No_pt_score
Ivc
DA PAM 623-3 states "APFT numerical scores will not be entered". Those instructions are for Part IV, block C of the NCOER. As you can see by the pictures, that includes the section for bullets. It is all one section.

I know, I know, "but CSM so and so said"... I get that a lot, but the regulation states what it states...
(8)
Comment
(0)
1SG Company First Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
7 y
Oh so I just pulled up the updated DA Pam 623-3 and it has been re worded. it now reads "in this block"

—Sample entries are "PASS 20100414," "FAIL 20100507," or "PROFILE 20100302." APFT numerical scores are not formatted entries and
will not be entered for this block.

That is dated 31 March 2014
(4)
Reply
(0)
SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
SFC (Join to see)
7 y
It does indeed now specify block a! Someone at HRC was listening/reading =) Well, there goes that..
(3)
Reply
(0)
SGT Nathan Huff
SGT Nathan Huff
7 y
I like the Profile or pass fail listing better than numbers
(1)
Reply
(0)
LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
5 y
1SG (Join to see) - From what I have been seeing and hearing, the NCOER is falling more in line with the OER method in that you only really talk about PT score if it is above and beyond (ie 290+ with over a 90 in each event). Otherwise, don't mention it at all.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
7
7
0
DA Pam 623-3 Table 3-4 says:
"— For Soldiers with permanent profiles who have been cleared to take an alternate APFT, enter “PASS” or “FAIL” for the alternate APFT as prescribed by health care personnel and the date of the APFT. The APFT may include an alternate authorized aerobic event (walk, bike, or swim). No comment about the rated Soldier’s profile is required.

— For Soldiers with permanent profiles whose profiles prohibit them from taking the APFT, the entry will be left blank and the rater will explain the reason it has been left blank."

I like SFC Jones' example where each event score is noted. This gives a granularity for tracking progress on each event.

As a former NCOER Clerk in a BN S-1, I would opine that if you must put a score on the NCOER, use the "promotion point" score (the scored events + averaged event(s)). This will keep the rated NCO in the same ballpark as other non-profile Soldiers.

(7)
Comment
(0)
MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
5 y
good post never thought about that but if you were to say grading point wise the walk or anyother alternatives this could be an answer
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close