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Should new Soldiers prior to reporting to their first duty station be allowed to remain in with permanent profiles? When i enlisted in 2000 I never heard of a permanent profile for two years. Why is there so many in the training recruitment world that we receive Soldiers on temporary and permanent profiles before their first duty station? Will the Army turn this into a rotating door to reduce the force? Can the Army survive with a bunch of broke 18-25 yr olds???
Posted in these groups: 
Duty Stations
Profiles
Duty Stations Profiles
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 24
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WTU and if they don't recover.... get out. Its not helping no one at that point
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I agree with you that I also didn't know about permanent profiles during my first few years in the Army. We just kind of sucked it up, took Motrin, and drank water! We did have a few of those "sick call rangers" who tended to go to sick call before field training, an APFT, etc. Most of us didn't think very highly of those who wouldn't just suck it up, but looking back, none of us really had any basis to form that opinion as we were completely unaware of whether those Soldiers had legitimate medical needs.
Anyway, back to your original question, I do think we can allow new Soldiers to serve with these permanent profiles from the beginning. It does seem a little off to me, but the Army has established medical requirements for each MOS, and as long as a Soldier meets those requirements, they should be allowed to serve in that MOS. Most jobs in the Army can be accomplished, regardless of how many push-ups and sit-ups you can do in two minutes, or how fast you can run 2 miles.
One other thing I have learned is that the Army cannot use permanent profiles as a force reduction tool. The fact that the Soldier has a permanent profile signifies that a Medical Doctor has reviewed the Soldier's limiting medical condition to determine whether that Soldier can still perform hie or her duties IAW the MOS requirements. In the event that a Soldier has a condition that may prevent them from performing their duties, the condition must be reviewed by a medical evaluation board to determine whether the Soldier is medically qualified or needs to be discharged. If they have been determined fit for duty, even with a permanent profile, the Army cannot legally discharge that individual on those grounds.
Once a Soldier gets a permanent profile, that profile is reviewed every five years, I think during the PHA. From my understanding, the new rules dictate that permanent profiles do not expire after 5 years. They remain valid indefinitely but are reviewed every 5 years. If the medical condition no longer exists when it is reevaluated, then the profile is lifted.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Just to add to what you said, SFC Tierney, a Med Board can also reclass someone to a MOS that the Soldier is capable of doing based on the PULHES score.
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The Army (and all the services) have always had new recruits with permanent profiles ever since the profile system was invented in WWII to even out the way draftees were distributed among the services.
You say you never heard of a permanent profile when you came in?!? Think back (or dig out any photo of your Basic Training unit) -- do you remember anyone in the unit wearing glasses? Anyone wearing glasses had a permanent profile. If you had a full 220 recruits in your basic training company, probably at least 20+ of them had some sort of permanent profile.
In fact, YOU had a permanent profile! EVERYONE has a profile from the day they complete their initial entrance medical exam until the day they are discharged. Your profile was apparently 111111 which simply means that the doctors didn't find anything wrong that required any limitations. Someone with glasses would have a 111121 profile. The profile system is a series of numeric codes under a system characterized as PLUHES which is an abbreviation for physical capacity/stamina (P), upper extremities (U), lower extremities (L), hearing and ears (H), eyes (E), and psychiatric (S).
When you talk about someone having "a profile" what you aren't talking about their profile but actually whining about is someone who has medical restrictions that you don't like because you think it gets them out of something that you have to do.
If the Army demanded everyone be a perfect physical specimen to get in, they'd be missing their recruiting goals by far more than they are now.
You say you never heard of a permanent profile when you came in?!? Think back (or dig out any photo of your Basic Training unit) -- do you remember anyone in the unit wearing glasses? Anyone wearing glasses had a permanent profile. If you had a full 220 recruits in your basic training company, probably at least 20+ of them had some sort of permanent profile.
In fact, YOU had a permanent profile! EVERYONE has a profile from the day they complete their initial entrance medical exam until the day they are discharged. Your profile was apparently 111111 which simply means that the doctors didn't find anything wrong that required any limitations. Someone with glasses would have a 111121 profile. The profile system is a series of numeric codes under a system characterized as PLUHES which is an abbreviation for physical capacity/stamina (P), upper extremities (U), lower extremities (L), hearing and ears (H), eyes (E), and psychiatric (S).
When you talk about someone having "a profile" what you aren't talking about their profile but actually whining about is someone who has medical restrictions that you don't like because you think it gets them out of something that you have to do.
If the Army demanded everyone be a perfect physical specimen to get in, they'd be missing their recruiting goals by far more than they are now.
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I enlisted around November 2002. My Sgt. First Class recruiter said I was "the leader" - not a good one. He went on to explain how i had every mental illness in the book and was able to work muscles harder and sustain more torture. Sadly I bought in about 15%. I hope that is highballing it.
Has anyone ever heard of this mental defective army profile?
Please keep the molestation to minimum. I'm serial. ;)
Has anyone ever heard of this mental defective army profile?
Please keep the molestation to minimum. I'm serial. ;)
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Well i have been in the army for 10 years and have always done very well on apft. Recently i suffered a major achilles injury and was told by my doctor i may never be able to run two miles again in the time alotted for me. I dont know if there are other things that i can do other than the run. Im worried because i dont want this injury to ruin my career. Any help or response would be appreciated. How do permenant profiles worm and will if effect my ncoer and promotions?
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Profiles have always been a big concern for leadership. I am currently in a WTU and there is a civilian who's soul purpose is to go over your profile. After doing so she goes through with the SM and explains what excersizes they can perform. A T-3 or P-3 of course has limitations. However there are plenty of excersizes that can be performed to maintain physical readiness.
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Based on quite a few of the trending posts there seems to be a number of active SM that really have some deep rooted issues with active SM having a permanent profile? I realize it has been close to three decades since I served but a SM with a P2 profile was not viewed as any less a soldier than one without a profile. Those that had profiles when I served did PT with the company or battalion but they had modified PT to fit their profile. These were mostly combat veterans or our senior NCO and Officers who soldiered beyond what their bodies could physically withstand. We looked up to these SM's and I don't remember the animosity that I am seeing in these discussions. Has PT changed where those having a profile are treated so differently that it is causing this animosity? The only active SM's that I remember receiving animosity such as this were active SM who couldn't or didn't meet their body fat standards and this changed where they became accepted just before I left the service. I am hopeful that the mindset of those who perceive active SM's having a permanent profile were given a profile and not medically discharged since they do add value and that they are no less a SM as they are regardless of their age or if they were in combat or not. Seems to me that these were actually the SM's that were stronger mentally and physically than those that could max their PT tests.
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The short answer to the original question is no. The broken and non-deployable servicemen only burden the active duty forces who do have to deploy. Those who can't meet the needs of an expeditionary force need to be chaptered or medically retired. There are special cases to be sure that a Commander should take into advisement but brand new soldiers need to be fit to fight not broke and sick.
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I actually work as a Case Manager for the Army national Guard in my civilian life, and profiles are all I deal with, every single day; so believe me when I say that a permanent profile, by itself, is not ever supposed to get you removed from the service. If you have an allergy that is severe enough to require an Epi-pen, you must have a permanent profile. Folliculitis? Permanent no shave profile. Snapped your hip and now you cannot run, but it does not otherwise inhibit you from performing your MOS? Permanent no run profile with alternate event. If your profile makes your PULHES a 3, you must go to a medical board where they will determine whether you are retainable or not; that is a panel of doctors who know the regulations and will review your case and all it's supporting documents and determine if you are fit for duty with or without limitations.
Just because you have a permanent profile does not mean you cannot soldier. In some cases, a person who will take years to recover from an injury can be placed on permanent profile; the profile will then be reviewed as the case requires and hopefully one day it will be expired. Think of it another way: you are a fresh faced 18 year old, on your way to your first duty station when you get into an accident. It causes all kinds of damage, and now you cannot do sit-ups or the run; should you have your entire future career ended because someone else made a mistake? You can still soldier, it will just take years for you to be able to run again(not to be confused with sprinting for cover. A two mile run and a 50 meter dash are two separate lines on a profile.) should you be kicked out, even though you are otherwise a good soldier?
Just because you have a permanent profile does not mean you cannot soldier. In some cases, a person who will take years to recover from an injury can be placed on permanent profile; the profile will then be reviewed as the case requires and hopefully one day it will be expired. Think of it another way: you are a fresh faced 18 year old, on your way to your first duty station when you get into an accident. It causes all kinds of damage, and now you cannot do sit-ups or the run; should you have your entire future career ended because someone else made a mistake? You can still soldier, it will just take years for you to be able to run again(not to be confused with sprinting for cover. A two mile run and a 50 meter dash are two separate lines on a profile.) should you be kicked out, even though you are otherwise a good soldier?
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My Ait will be 53 weeks long, If God forbid, I get hurt I have plenty of time to do so. Should I be kicked out just cause I picked a longer "trail" period?
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