Posted on Mar 4, 2014
SFC Intelligence Analyst
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Yesterday while driving back to military housing here @ DLI, I saw a car of a student (we have tags in our cars for staff and for students for parking), so while at a red light, I noticed a sticker with Obama's picture and not my president next to it. So my question is, since we took an oath to defend the consitution and obey the orders of the president, for a SM, is it proper to put a statement like that for everyone to see? I know we have freedom of speech and all of that, but wouldn't be more proper if you don't like the incumbent, just exercise your right to vote and vote them out, but in the meanwhile obey his or her orders
Posted in these groups: President logo PresidentD2d98f7c Orders6262122778 997339a086 z Politics
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LCpl Mark Lefler
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Just because a person can do something, doesn't mean they should.
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
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Edited >1 y ago
If I were active, I would make no speach, display or actions against Obama unless the impossible happened and we have a legitiamate order to remove him from office.

Since I'm no longer Office, I'll paint his face on the bottom of the inside of my toilet.

On the other hand, ANY bumpersticker against Obama or his cronies simply means "Liberals vandalize my car". I have a rather nice car and would hate to have to disembowel somebody over.
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LCpl Steve Wininger
LCpl Steve Wininger
11 y
Sgt Packy Flickinger You have a way of putting things into perspective, I love it.
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SPC David Wyckoff
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I like surprising people. I have hard core conservative friends that I like to surprise by having slightly left leaning libertarian views. I have left side friends that I go 'round and 'round about the second amendment with.


If I was still in, I would definitely not have any political designators on my POV. Slightly out of respect, but mostly because I just don't feel my personal political views are anyone elses business.


I am very conservative, but I still address the CoC as President Obama until such day as he leaves office or is impeached.


 


Ok...the dead horse is now skeletal.


 

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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
9 y
Exactly
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Capt Jeff S.
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Nobody here is advocating insurrection, but our nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic and it governs by rule of law. As citizens, we elect leaders to represent us and make laws. The system breaks down when those we elect pass laws affecting the general public and exempt themselves from the same... and when those we elect fail to uphold their oaths which state,

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

They are sworn to obey the Constitution just as we are, and they are not above the laws they make for us. It is our responsiblity to vote and to hold those we elect accountable for the job they do representing our collective interest as citizens. You may sign petitions as private citizens but NEVER EVER connect the military with your political beliefs.

For example, don't put your uniform on and stand on an overpass holding banners calling for this or that political cause or hold signs endorsing a certain political party or individual. You can write your Congressman and express your concerns as a private individual, but leave the military out of it and don't sign your letter with your military rank. You don't want to be the guy who wrote his Congressman because his drill instructor wouldn't let him eat cake at the chow hall and doesn't understand why he and his boyfriend fiancee can't get married at the base chapel...

We forfeit some of our rights when we take our oath of service and subject ourselves to the UCMJ. When I was a Marine Private all the way through Marine Capt, I could not freely express my opinions publicly... and I didn't! Many of you think its unprofessional when retirees exercise their 1st Amendment Rights and speak out about the misconduct of our elected officials and call them out for their abuses of power, failure to represent the best interests of their electorate, and/or actions which go against OUR Constitution -- the one we ALL took an oath to support and defend with our blood and our lives.

As a retiree, I have a little more latitude to express my opinions than those currently serving. Some of you sea lawyers disagree with that, and it's a free country; you're allowed to do that.
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
9 y
Read on to the part about the President being CinC
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SCPO Safety And Environmental Coordinator
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Although personally I think this is probably not in good taste for a military member, it is probably well within their right. Where it would cross the line is if the bumper sticker indicated a threat, such as a picture of the President with a cross-hair over it or some other indication of violence. As service members we are allowed to express ourselves to a point. As long as the words are not contemptuous or inciting violence or rebellion, you are probably ok, but I would advise treading lightly. I've seen many military members post things on social media that definitely crossed the line. The more senior you are, the less you should probably say as well.

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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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WOW!  This one seems to have hit a nerve . . . and we even have one thread running down the 2nd ammendment rabbit hole!  Sometimes I love Rally Point! LMAO

 

But, to the question at hand.  In my opinion, this falls into the same category as the recent Social Media gaffs by Army personnel.  Individuals need to THINK about what they are about to do (whether it's a Twitter post or a bumpersticker) and ask themselves, "Could this be embarrassing to me, my chain of command, or the military?"  If the answer is YES, don't fricken do it!!

If the above question is too difficult for some of your simpler Soldiers/Airmen/Marines/Sailors, EVERYONE can use this one:  "Could this get me in trouble?"

There are some great posts here arguing the application of the 1st Ammendment, DoD Regs, Army Regs, Supreme Court decisions, etc. but I find it much simpler than that.  SHOULD A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY PUBLICLY DISPLAY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED INSULTING TO THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF?  The obvious and simple answer is NO!!

When friends and family ask me for my opinion on the current administration (this one and previous ones) I have a stock answer:  Never talk about your boss, good or bad;  you will always p*** someone off.

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Col Squadron Commander
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12 y
Well stated Capt!
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LTC Joseph Gross
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Last week just chatting with the boss and our lawyer, this question came up. She (lawyer) actually found the governing guidance. You are allowed to put political bumper stickers on your car saying whatever you would like about the president. I was surprised by this because during the Clinton era, Fort Benning told me differently. The difference now is I have seen it in writing. 
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Col Squadron Commander
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12 y
Just because it's legally permitted, doesn't necessarily mean it's in good taste, or a good example of military decorum and professionalism.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
12 y
I don't disagree one bit with that. But unfortunately what matters is the regulation or statute. 
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PO1 Tracy Dreyer
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I have friends that are being pushed to get their commission, and they refuse to do so as long as he is in office as they do not want his signature on their Commission!
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SGT Robert Holt
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No less appropriate than those purporting their support. If you want to ban one, you ban the other, and make a regulation that states that service members can't have political bumper stickers on their cars. That's like saying, "It's okay to be a toady and a boot licker, but if you think for yourself and are critical of the man in charge, that's not okay." ...but oh, yeah. There's that whole private property thing covered by the
Fourth Amendment, and the freedom of expression covered by the First
getting in the way. Sort of hard to set one's self apart as a defender of freedom if you're busy trampling all over the freedom of your soldiers because you don't like what they have to say. We're not fascists, though some might think they want to be.
       Loyalty, and loyal service do not mean being loyal to a President who blatantly flaunts Constitutional law, and enacts or renews policies that continue to violate the Rights of American citizens. Nor does it mean to be a spineless, "yes man", and simply follow orders. That means knowing when to disobey as well. The example of the German prison guards at the Nuremberg trials comes to mind. I think the men who drafted and finalized our Oath of Enlistment knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote it. Our Duty, as soldiers, and as citizens is clear in that regard, and in the specific order in which we swear to obey. Uphold and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic means exactly that, up to and including understanding when (God forbid) one might be required to relieve one's leadership of their command for violating their oath and/or the rights of the citizens of our country. NO President, Officer, NCO, Soldier, or citizen is ABOVE the law of the land, regardless of the office held. No regulation supersedes our Constitution. Too many in our country think of government as the Master. It is not. It is our servant, and that servant has forgotten its place. It is high past time that our government and its officials were reminded.
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SGT Robert Holt
SGT Robert Holt
12 y
I'd be interested in hearing where you seem to think I'm going with my statement. I don't infer anything, but say exactly what I mean. As for Article 82, I'm no longer beholden to the UCMJ or any other military authority for that matter. I'm now a private citizen. "We the People are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who would pervert it." -Abraham Lincoln
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MAJ Protection Officer
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I would say that putting a political bumper sticker on your car is a great way to let other drivers know to cut you off in traffic.
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SSgt George Brown
SSgt George Brown
12 y
I just look and shake my head! :)
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