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From: Army Times
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
If you want to go out in public on Fort Leonard Wood you better ditch the tank top, pull up your saggy drawers and shave that scruff.
Maj. Gen. Leslie Smith, the Missouri post's commanding general, issued new appearance standards in a Nov. 10 policy update.
The rules not only crack down on sloppy dress, but skimpy outfits as well: No short skirts, exposed midriffs and revealing undergarments.
The rules fall under the post's Command Policy 18, which used to be called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms." Now it's called "Wear and Appearance of Uniforms and Civilian Attire," which really brings into focus the expansion of the policy to include not only soldiers in civilian clothes, but also spouses, kids, guests – anyone who comes on post.
"The entire concept is good order and discipline. The Army is talking about the Army profession, how we look, how we dress," Smith told Army Times in a Nov. 21 interview.
While the policy change has garnered plenty of buzz online, Smith downplayed the changes. He has been the posts' commanding general since June 2013, and said the base simply updated the regs after waiting for recent updates to AR 670-1, the Armywide regulation on appearance standards.
But Smith's policy does go further in some cases than AR 670-1. For example, the shaving rule. AR 670-1 requires soldiers to be "clean shaven" whenever they are in uniform or on duty. Fort Leonard Wood has called for soldiers to be clean-shaven, whether they are on duty or off. This is one of the few rules in the policy that do not extend to civilians on post.
"We've followed the lead on other bases and establishments," said Smith.
In recent years, bases such as Fort Irwin, California, and Fort Stewart, Georgia, have issued similar crackdowns.
Policy highlights for everyone on post at Fort Leonard Wood:
• No bare mid-drifts, shirts with cut-out armpits or sleeveless shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, or shorts/skirts/tops that "are too revealing."
• No sagging pants, pajamas or house shoes.
• No clothing depicting obscenity, slander, drug paraphernalia, or vulgarity.
More policy highlights for soldiers only:
• No headphones while wearing any Army uniform, including official PT uniforms, except for a hands-free device while driving. Soldiers can wear headphones, however, while walking or running on sidewalks, troop trails, running tracks or inside the gym in civilian clothing.
• Though not new, a draft poster depicting the changes reinforces that PT uniforms cannot be worn outside of unit personal training, transit to PT, and a few select locations such as the daycare center.
Officers bear responsibility for passing down the changes to soldiers under their command, and soldiers for informing families and guests, base spokeswoman Shatara Seymour said. Access control officers at the post's gates will have authority to prevent entrance to those not in compliance, and management of various facilities will also wield authority to ask people to leave.
Smith said certain facilities such as the PX and commissary could ask inappropriately dressed civilians or soldiers to leave, but said the gate guards would focus more on military personnel rather than denying non-compliant civilians access.
He said they will be looking hard at the off-duty shaving requirement, leaving open the possibility that there could be an adjustment to that rule.
As for enforcement, he said, "self-policing is the goal." The policy states, as it did before the changes, that soldiers all "have the general military authority to make corrections on service members improperly wearing the uniform, regardless of the rank or duty" of the non-compliant soldier.
After a draft of a poster spelling out Smith's policy leaked online, soldiers and vets responded with mixed reviews via social media.
"As a former NCO I agree with this 100%. When I was in this was not an issue, we looked squared away 24/7. It's sad that today soldiers have to be told how to look both on and off duty," Jack Hutchinson said via Facebook.
Others reserved their blunt remarks for civilian appearance.
"It's Leonard Wood which means it is constantly full of disgusting civilian family members watching their spawn graduate Basic Training. Good luck to the post CSM on actually enforcing this," said John Atkinson.
But comments also included pushback against rules viewed by some as superfluous.
"God forbid soldiers utilize music devices while improving their physical fitness," Scott Welch said.
"I am a retired NCO, and I think the shaving point is total BS," said Steve Buero. "I NEVER shaved on weekends or on leave. That is my time and if I was on duty in civilian clothes I shaved, but you call me in for some BS on my leave you got what you got."
Some complained that family members and friends visiting the base not employed by the Army should not be subjected to Army rules. But others say coming on the post comes with tacit agreement to abide by rules designed to promote the atmosphere desired by leadership.
"Hate to be the spoiler. But soldiers are and have always been responsible for the actions of the family members. It is the soldier's responsibility to ensure family members know what they can and cannot do," John DeSmith said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/21/leonard-wood-dress-code/70017120/
Army
Fort Leonard Wood
Army Regulations
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 112
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I think all of these things are fair. The only thing I have to say against shaving on or off duty would be that if you are doing any sort of unit functions or activities on post, then that would be enforceable. Getting turned away at the gate for facial hair would be downright stupid, unless it is a service member in uniform. Out of uniform, it would be up to any personnel present at facilities or activities to make that correction.
People crying about headphones, it says right in it, you are allowed to wear headphones in designated areas, where you would be wearing them anyway. What is new and outrageous about this?
To the NCO that said he shows up unshaven when getting called in from leave, that's a no-go. If you are doing anything official, you should show up in your uniform, and be clean shaven.
Be Know Do
People crying about headphones, it says right in it, you are allowed to wear headphones in designated areas, where you would be wearing them anyway. What is new and outrageous about this?
To the NCO that said he shows up unshaven when getting called in from leave, that's a no-go. If you are doing anything official, you should show up in your uniform, and be clean shaven.
Be Know Do
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As is often the case, there was a reason for this.
I bet 1SG Michael Blount displayed some of the reasons in his pictures within this post!
I bet 1SG Michael Blount displayed some of the reasons in his pictures within this post!
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Suspended Profile
Bring forth the squads from the Vice and Virtue Ministry!
Suspended Profile
Not after Labor Day.
SSG (Join to see)
WOW!!!!!!! What has been seen can not be unseen. My poor eyes. Looks like a few spouses I've seen at the PX.
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When I was on active duty back in the stone ages 60s/70s you could not go off Post in fatigues unless you were going off Post to your home, or coming on post to 'work' . Other than that you were either in class A or B ( in Summer/spring) , or civics .
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SSG Jesus Sijalbo
That should be ban from Post. Skinny Jeans, for Sure! How do they fit in it. Women sure, it compliments the ladies but Men, Common Man.
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The current regulation allows you not shave on the weekends for a reason. Just ask the chief dermatologist at FLW their opinion.
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Suspended Profile
On base is the last place you'd catch me on the weekend/leave. So no issue for me.
SGT Michael Glenn
This is a lol, we are gonna have posts on here about allowing muslims to continue to wear beards in uniform but others have to follow a different standard??? This is just too funny !!!!!
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I understand the reason for those policies and agree with most of them since they relate to the image, safety, and other reasons. However, is hard to buy or believe in a "legitimate" reason for not allowing soldiers to stop shaving while they are not on duty. Officers that love to add to the regulations by implementing policies like this one needs to look at the big picture instead of focusing on little things like the shaving clause. The face needs recovery time!
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Those who serve in the Military volunteered to join its ranks and follow lawful orders by leaders appointed over them. The Military is a dictatorship that defends democracy and those who volunteered to serve in the military are upheld to certain expected standards. Appearance is one of those standards that is dictated to us and expected to be upheld on or off duty. A Service Member is someone who serves 24/7, 365 days a year and can be called in to perform their duties. Depending on when they get called in they should at least look like they have shaven within the last 24 hours.
As for the Military Installation wide Policy for appearance, it is obvious the Military Commander saw a need to write it. The Military is suppose to represent a well disciplined force that presents a professional appearance at all times to include the Installation and individuals granted access to it. Civilians and Family Members either abide by the Appearance Policies set forth by the Military Commander for that Military Installation or risk their access privilege being revoked for that Military Installation.
As for a Service Member whose family resides on the Military Installation, that was their choice to live there. You can always move them off the Military Installation if they don't want to abide by what is written in the Commander's Installation Appearance Policy. No Service Member's family is forced to live with them on their duty station.
As for the Military Installation wide Policy for appearance, it is obvious the Military Commander saw a need to write it. The Military is suppose to represent a well disciplined force that presents a professional appearance at all times to include the Installation and individuals granted access to it. Civilians and Family Members either abide by the Appearance Policies set forth by the Military Commander for that Military Installation or risk their access privilege being revoked for that Military Installation.
As for a Service Member whose family resides on the Military Installation, that was their choice to live there. You can always move them off the Military Installation if they don't want to abide by what is written in the Commander's Installation Appearance Policy. No Service Member's family is forced to live with them on their duty station.
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SPC William Bahrman
When i served all of the units i was involved with or around were held to a very strict.high standard on or off post.from head to toe and dress both sexes,and when all was on board i guess we never had to worry about anything it was sort of not even gonna get caught differing.just saying?
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SPC William Bahrman
When i served all of the units i was involved with or around were held to a very strict.high standard on or off post.from head to toe and dress both sexes,and when all was on board i guess we never had to worry about anything it was sort of not even gonna get caught differing.just saying?
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It like it all. Good on them. Be responsible, respectful, and have good appearance all the time. Your a soldier 24/7. Is it that hard to dress properly and shave? Nope. If you don't like the rules, it's simple, get out. But then being a Marine we have always had those rules, some don't follow them but they have been there for years.
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SSG Alex Toulomelis
I think that the major issue here is that service members that joined post 9-11 don't understand that the wearing of civilian clothes, living off post and driving on post is a privilege not a right. Once you raise your right hand you are subject to the rules and regulations of said service. Regulations such as an off duty dress code are in place to instill discipline, something that the garrison military needs. I think that it is funny that people complain about things such as this, suck it up. The military is not a job it is a lifestyle.
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