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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
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Combat Arms
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Combat Arms Support
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
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My thing is this. I am a POG. Unless you are an 03, you're a POG. Personnel Other than Grunt. There are no ifs ands or buts...Lets take a look at the term GRUNT though...General Replacement UNTrained. This term came around in a time where infantry personnel were being sent overseas before training in order to keep up the troop levels and they then learned on the fly but then they weren't untrained so therefore, technically no longer a Grunt...
However, that's irrelevant in todays world. There will always be POG vs. Grunt. I'm in a Combat Arms MOS as an MP. I've never done a day of PMO work in my life. It's all been field side work with convoy security in Afghanistan. I've been trained in a variety of 03 tactics as well with patrolling, machine gunnery, ambush techniques, MOUT...but I'm still not a Grunt. I'm a field MP...
Do I call Marines POGs while being a POG? Yes. To me the term POG is someone who is soft as mentioned earlier. Someone who complains about no hot chow, or showers, or their phones dying in the field...We didn't have phones or hot chow when we were outside the wire for 2 weeks at a time on a convoy. We slept in our trucks or on cots or on the ground...Our showers were baby wipes and our "hot chow" was getting the chance to use the MRE heater. I also call deployment dodgers. Ones who had multiple opportunities to deploy but always found an excuse to get out of it but then when we got back they said how they wanted to go but they wouldn't them..
However, that's irrelevant in todays world. There will always be POG vs. Grunt. I'm in a Combat Arms MOS as an MP. I've never done a day of PMO work in my life. It's all been field side work with convoy security in Afghanistan. I've been trained in a variety of 03 tactics as well with patrolling, machine gunnery, ambush techniques, MOUT...but I'm still not a Grunt. I'm a field MP...
Do I call Marines POGs while being a POG? Yes. To me the term POG is someone who is soft as mentioned earlier. Someone who complains about no hot chow, or showers, or their phones dying in the field...We didn't have phones or hot chow when we were outside the wire for 2 weeks at a time on a convoy. We slept in our trucks or on cots or on the ground...Our showers were baby wipes and our "hot chow" was getting the chance to use the MRE heater. I also call deployment dodgers. Ones who had multiple opportunities to deploy but always found an excuse to get out of it but then when we got back they said how they wanted to go but they wouldn't them..
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CPT (Join to see)
The Army used to two different types. I don't believe we have different types anymore. It is happens to be a duty assignment for most. Even when I deployed last our MP platoon never did anything close to what would considered combat arms. We have an AF security forces (mp) with us the whole time. They are a whole different beast.
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SGT (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) it's technically a duty assignment for us too. However, not a lot of Marines bounce back and forth. Most field MPs that I know haven't done PMO work.
I don't know much about the AF security forces though
I don't know much about the AF security forces though
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I deployed recently with "Infantry men" if that's what you want to call them and they were soo sorry all they did was complain... They slept all day and night while us "pogs" pulled security and did every mission and detail.. I can't stand the infantry
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CPT (Join to see)
Fair enough. Keep in mind that even in the infantry we call another POGs. Just because you are infantry doesn't mean you are a bad ass. Add you elude to I have seen some sorry ass infantrymen out there. I'll call them out for it. It is something that must be earned everyday. I hope you weren't referring to all infantry were you said you can't stand them. :) (just so you know I'm infantry)
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SFC Dave Joslin
SGT Mcclendon - I can understand how the experience may have tainted your view, but in the end the basic premiss of the Army is the Infantry - the Army exists because of them - like it or not, without them nobody else would have jobs.
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SGT (Join to see)
And without us they wouldn't be able to do their job proficiently.. Therefore everyone should respect everyone's MOS.. SFC Joslin
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
SGt Diamond Mcclendon sounds like a unit Command element that drank to much of the Cool-aid when they moving up in the ranks. That should of never of happen, and yes everyone should respect all MOS.
MSG Greg Kelly sadly that what happens when some Guard units still believe they are the old-boys network and militia they came from where they voted their leadership into position. Why I am not a real fan of calling up and sending these Guard units over seas. Not all are Bad, but not are Stellar either, when they go through their training, if the Officers and NCOs aren't up to the duties before they go down range or once they do issue arise, then have system to replace them. From my point of view, a good share of them should be replace before they ship anyways, for same reasons why they are rotated in out of units in the Regular in Army. So you don't get situation like this happening when they get overseas and to keep the troops on their toes.
Which has been point out, I do understand the call of POGs and Legs. Used to do it myself in my unit, we did to it each other, lot of the time it all tongue in check stuff. Sometimes people take way to seriously, like I said in the end of the day we are/were serving the same Army, serving the same President, working on the same mission.
MSG Greg Kelly sadly that what happens when some Guard units still believe they are the old-boys network and militia they came from where they voted their leadership into position. Why I am not a real fan of calling up and sending these Guard units over seas. Not all are Bad, but not are Stellar either, when they go through their training, if the Officers and NCOs aren't up to the duties before they go down range or once they do issue arise, then have system to replace them. From my point of view, a good share of them should be replace before they ship anyways, for same reasons why they are rotated in out of units in the Regular in Army. So you don't get situation like this happening when they get overseas and to keep the troops on their toes.
Which has been point out, I do understand the call of POGs and Legs. Used to do it myself in my unit, we did to it each other, lot of the time it all tongue in check stuff. Sometimes people take way to seriously, like I said in the end of the day we are/were serving the same Army, serving the same President, working on the same mission.
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Then the CSM was no better than the Soldiers he did not correct or run it up the chain? A prime example of "Poor" leadership.
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CPT (Join to see)
You can't correct everything. I don't think it was the duty of our CSM to correct everyone of their soldiers. I don't blame him. It would be unrealistic.
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Capt Al Parker
You are so right, at times reading some of the military articles I get the feeling that self discipline or any discipline is nolonger being stressed in the military at the enlisted and officer level. Not like it was back when I was in uniform. I think today's military wants to act more like civilians than military. Have a Great Day MSgt.
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CPT (Join to see)
It means a "Person Other than Grunt." Basically everyone in the military that is not Infantry. It is commonly used in the Army and Marines. Due to the lack of infantry in the Air Force in Navy they really don't understand it.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Well, I think you marines and soldiers performing infantry duty both deserve equal respect. I certainly benifit from the bravery you guys demonstrate by doing such things. Hats off to you all.
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I feel any time you differentiate troops such as infantry and cav with either authorized or unauthorized uniform garb your going to get some sort of stratification. This can come about in a number of ways, name calling one of them. If you want to get rid of the "POGs" I feel you're going to need to get rid of the infantry cord, backings, and CIB, however I don't ever see that happening.
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CPT (Join to see)
Here is what I do know: It takes a village. I mean, if you don't have any "POGs" your unit will fail. And you are correct in your observation that many do not work as hard as the "POGs". Nothing will help a unit more than having someone who is administratively squared away that wants the unit to succeed. Treat them like crap and they will find somewhere else to go.
And, in the end, we are all Soldiers, or Sailors or Marines or Airmen, or Coast Guard or as we are all, to someone "troops".
Here is what I do know: It takes a village. I mean, if you don't have any "POGs" your unit will fail. And you are correct in your observation that many do not work as hard as the "POGs". Nothing will help a unit more than having someone who is administratively squared away that wants the unit to succeed. Treat them like crap and they will find somewhere else to go.
And, in the end, we are all Soldiers, or Sailors or Marines or Airmen, or Coast Guard or as we are all, to someone "troops".
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I don't know about the Marine Corps, but, as for the Army--no, no Soldier should called POG--just like Infantrymen shouldn't be called knuckle-draggers or any other term insulting their intelligence. Moreover, this type of name calling can be construed as bullying or hazing which is now added to the new AR 600-20 as a standard of misconduct. I got it--most of it is harmless joking, until it's not and someone either files a complaint or worse--someone is driven to hurting themselves because of constant ridicule. So, the easy answer is to just stop it all and everyone wins...
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CPT (Join to see)
On the same token how often are we called "Grunts." I have even seen it even on here. I could say that I am not some dumb cave man that simply just runs into a gun fight grunting as a form of communication but it is not viewed like that. Just like we don't view the term POG. How often have you heard soldiers say "that is grunt stuff" or some other jab at the infantry. Would they be it by AR 600-20 also?
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MSG (Join to see)
Who decides? Maybe I am more easily offended then others. Is that also covered under the new AR 600-20? Because if it is....
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CSM (Join to see)
Just like every other basis of any filed compliant, is from the perspective and perception of the acusser. No, 600-20 doesn't specifically address the word "POG" or "Grunt", however, it doesn't need to to categorize those words as a form of bullying or hazing if the acusser feels bullied or hazed by being called either one. It's not rocket science. We all know it's not about what was intended, it's about how it was received. Yes, there was a time when all these pet names and ragging on each other was acceptable culture in the Army---it still wasn't right---it was just acceptable. Now it isn't acceptable anymore in light of us promoting us as a professional Army. We just need to accept that the Army is progressing and progress with it.
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What bothers me the most on this post is the that the CSM....the biggest horse in the barn walking around with 'blinders' on. This is precisley why standards flew the coop. Set the standard, be the standard and ENFORCE the standard. By the way.....being called a POG is the same as being called a jarhead, squid, grunt, gun bunny, leg, FNG...etc....
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SSG (Join to see)
This is true. However, all the seniors should have put the heads together and found a way tobrectify the situation
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Chris Smith They were working outside just like we were. I ended up putting on my silk weight top. They were wearing a mix of issued and unissued gear. It was all a mess. If they were all the same they would have not been so bad but it is all over the place. from ploypro to fleece to snow suits. head gear was a mix from black fleece to green fleece to PC to some random are colorish knit caps.
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Chris Smith You are right about they all don't have to have the same uniform but they looked like ass. My soldiers were just wearing ACUs with a silk weight top. It wasn't really that cold. The black fleece is not an authorized item for the ACU. Our CSM sets the policy on what we can and can not wear. My 1SG enforces it. It is the point of looking uniformed and uniform. If every soldier in a squad is wearing a different piece of snivel gear are they really uniformed?
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