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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
Posted in these groups: 
Combat Arms
Support
Combat Arms Support
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
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Always some POG complaining about something. Being a POG myself I see no problem with it. There are POGs and Grunts. Among POGs there are POG and AirWing. It's not much different than squids calling us jarheads. Enjoy the POG life, or if you don't want to be called a POG go infantry.
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SGM (Join to see)
Don't leave out the Zoomies, Treadheads, Bean Counters, Paper Shufflers, Cannon Cockers, ... this could go on forever.
If you are putting someone else down, STOP.
Otherwise take it with a smile. There's the shared misery Infantrymen are proud to bear, middle frame in the above cartoon. If you wanted it, you could have had it.
If you are putting someone else down, STOP.
Otherwise take it with a smile. There's the shared misery Infantrymen are proud to bear, middle frame in the above cartoon. If you wanted it, you could have had it.
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I cannot improve upon the article written by Peter Sessum titled "POG is a Mentality not an MOS" - I encourage you to take the time to read it.
He makes several excellent points that I give two thumbs up too. It's not what you do, but how you go about doing it.
http://thedogtagchronicles.com/2014/05/18/pog-is-a-mentality-not-an-mos/
He makes several excellent points that I give two thumbs up too. It's not what you do, but how you go about doing it.
http://thedogtagchronicles.com/2014/05/18/pog-is-a-mentality-not-an-mos/
By Peter Sessum Even though it was a couple of years ago, the Why Grunts Hate POGs post is still getting hits so it must resonate with a lot of people. Maybe it is time for a follow-up or an update...
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I'll take a POG over a POS any day in any unit.
There is good natured banter and humor between the services and MOS's and it's all good. Competition is good. Everything in moderation is good. Watch out for those that take it (or themselves) too seriously. Nothing usually shut people up faster than telling them I'd make them switch jobs for a while and see how they like it.
I've been on both sides - Combat Arms and Combat Support. It's kind of like comparing the run and walk on the APFT - the walk is not as easy as it sounds and unless you've tried it, you might not should talk smack about it.
It takes all kinds doing different jobs to makes the big green wheel go around.
There is good natured banter and humor between the services and MOS's and it's all good. Competition is good. Everything in moderation is good. Watch out for those that take it (or themselves) too seriously. Nothing usually shut people up faster than telling them I'd make them switch jobs for a while and see how they like it.
I've been on both sides - Combat Arms and Combat Support. It's kind of like comparing the run and walk on the APFT - the walk is not as easy as it sounds and unless you've tried it, you might not should talk smack about it.
It takes all kinds doing different jobs to makes the big green wheel go around.
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I don't mind being called a POG. I was deployed when I was combat arms as a maneuver platoon. I hated going out on patrols day in, day out. I enjoy that I get to sit behind a desk instead of a motor pool everyday (first duty station was Fort Polk for 3 years, due the math on that one). The way I see it, I did my time on patrols, I am now content on staying on the FOB. I, however, will not bend the regulations. I will stay in uniform no matter what. Go ahead and call me old fashioned and stubborn. I will follow the rules and at the end of the day, wont be on anyone's shit list.
I have a tendency to laugh at the people that flip out because it is a little chilly in the mornings. OF COURSE IT'S COLD, the sun hasn't warmed the earth up yet at 6 am. I am walking around in your average, everyday, standard ACU uniform, my NCO (as well as everyone else in my branch who just got out of basic) is wearing his fleece and saying how cold he is. I can only think to myself "No its not." every time because it will only get colder and these people will not know how to handle it.
I have a tendency to laugh at the people that flip out because it is a little chilly in the mornings. OF COURSE IT'S COLD, the sun hasn't warmed the earth up yet at 6 am. I am walking around in your average, everyday, standard ACU uniform, my NCO (as well as everyone else in my branch who just got out of basic) is wearing his fleece and saying how cold he is. I can only think to myself "No its not." every time because it will only get colder and these people will not know how to handle it.
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I did a little research as "Pogue/POG" has to be one of the most miss used and least understood slang.
The Viet prostitute slang is BS, but going back a few wars Pogue was a UK word for prostitute and the famous American chocolate bar (Pogey Bait) could probably get you laid in a decimated Europe. Make the connection?
60s RVN had a lot of Pogues: Comm pogues, supply pogues, Remington raiders (office pogues). In a Tank Bn. Pogue meant anyone that rarely left the Bn. perimeter. The Comm pogues thought us Gun Co. guys crazed gods from listening to combat actions. I used trained supply pogues as drivers/loaders and always had extra anything, especially C-rats.
To the credit of Marine pogues, they were riflemen first and thus our reactionaries. During TET when all hell broke loose they did not hesitate and we lost many from a two 6X reaction group that responded to an OP over run...they were anything but Other Than Grunt.
The Viet prostitute slang is BS, but going back a few wars Pogue was a UK word for prostitute and the famous American chocolate bar (Pogey Bait) could probably get you laid in a decimated Europe. Make the connection?
60s RVN had a lot of Pogues: Comm pogues, supply pogues, Remington raiders (office pogues). In a Tank Bn. Pogue meant anyone that rarely left the Bn. perimeter. The Comm pogues thought us Gun Co. guys crazed gods from listening to combat actions. I used trained supply pogues as drivers/loaders and always had extra anything, especially C-rats.
To the credit of Marine pogues, they were riflemen first and thus our reactionaries. During TET when all hell broke loose they did not hesitate and we lost many from a two 6X reaction group that responded to an OP over run...they were anything but Other Than Grunt.
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I'm a POG, my husband is a grunt, neither term is derogatory. Is this what we've regressed to? Whining about nicknames?
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SPC John Borley
Chick Infantry eh? Care to elaborate? I'll admit that as an MP, I used to enjoy locking up the eleven bang bang's coming through the gate drunk, but I'll admit 9 times out of 10 folks got a pass unless they were running their mouth's about MP's. Not a sermon, just a thought.
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1SG (Join to see)
Eleven Bang Bangs? And if you enjoy locking up anyone I suggest you find a new career.
You see what I did there? I took what you said personal. ( I really didn't)
No need to elaborate, MP's being chick infantry is a stereotype.. A funny one at that.
My point is that I think "chick infantry" is funny but we all know every MOS is key to making the Army successful. A little bit of banter is good for moral as long as its not personal. If someone is making fun of MP's or any other MOS, their are half truths to those stereotypes. I like to laugh with them and share stereotypes and short stories.
I agree with 1LT (P) Ginestar maintain and enforce the standards and who cares about nicknames. Also, I admire that you would rather cut people breaks, it sais a lot about your character.
You see what I did there? I took what you said personal. ( I really didn't)
No need to elaborate, MP's being chick infantry is a stereotype.. A funny one at that.
My point is that I think "chick infantry" is funny but we all know every MOS is key to making the Army successful. A little bit of banter is good for moral as long as its not personal. If someone is making fun of MP's or any other MOS, their are half truths to those stereotypes. I like to laugh with them and share stereotypes and short stories.
I agree with 1LT (P) Ginestar maintain and enforce the standards and who cares about nicknames. Also, I admire that you would rather cut people breaks, it sais a lot about your character.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
It started with some female MP Captain in Panama that took her MP Company, which included a lot of female 95Bs, and attacked and captured a position using Fire and Maneuver. She got a SS for her efforts. Soon the story spread to the USMA. There were several female cadets that wanted in the Infantry, but Clinton and Nunn were gonna have none of that. So it was suggested they branch MP and call it the chick infantry.
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SGM (Join to see)
Everyone should be proud of whatever service they chose (assuming they did a good job of it.) If you aren't proud, that's YOUR fault, not mine.
As far back as the Roman Empire, Infantrymen were looked down on by other MOSs. 1st century BC Infantrymen perversely called themselves Marius' Mules, because of the 120 lb load they were expected to carry.
It has continued today and Infantrymen have always taken pride in their shared misery. And EVERY time someone laughs at Infantrymen suffering, you'll hear the POG comment coming back.
As SFC Christopher Dery said, "l. A little bit of banter is good for moral as long as it's not personal." And it is never good when it is personal.
Now that I am retired, I meet more Marines than I used to, and being Marines, whatever they did was bigger, badder, tougher, more dangerous, or whatever than anyone else. Of course, I'm a paratrooper, and there's no way I'm going to let some jarhead think he can diss my service. I like to tell them, "I really like Marines. If it wasn't for you, they'd expect the Army to charge a beachhead into dug in enemy bunkers. It takes a certain mentality to charge head on into the teeth of the enemy, and thank God I don't have it. I much prefer to be a paratrooper. They drop us behind the enemy by surprise, then we get to dig in and make the enemy charge us. And we never have to worry about supply lines, or fields of fire. When you are surrounded, you can shoot any direction you want."
Lessons:
1) If you are proud of what you do, be PROUD. If you aren't don't tear anyone else down because of YOUR lack.
2) Grow a thicker skin about other people being proud of what they did.
3) Don't make it personal. Don't take it personally, unless it was MEANT to be personal.
4) And if after all this, you are still mortally offended by someone calling you a jarhead, grunt, dirty leg, tread head, bean counter, chick infantry, cannon cocker, zoomie, squid, ... whatever, please tell me how it feels to be so weak and spineless that mere words can hurt you? Go find something to make you proud of yourself and quit looking to others for validation of your reason for existence.
As far back as the Roman Empire, Infantrymen were looked down on by other MOSs. 1st century BC Infantrymen perversely called themselves Marius' Mules, because of the 120 lb load they were expected to carry.
It has continued today and Infantrymen have always taken pride in their shared misery. And EVERY time someone laughs at Infantrymen suffering, you'll hear the POG comment coming back.
As SFC Christopher Dery said, "l. A little bit of banter is good for moral as long as it's not personal." And it is never good when it is personal.
Now that I am retired, I meet more Marines than I used to, and being Marines, whatever they did was bigger, badder, tougher, more dangerous, or whatever than anyone else. Of course, I'm a paratrooper, and there's no way I'm going to let some jarhead think he can diss my service. I like to tell them, "I really like Marines. If it wasn't for you, they'd expect the Army to charge a beachhead into dug in enemy bunkers. It takes a certain mentality to charge head on into the teeth of the enemy, and thank God I don't have it. I much prefer to be a paratrooper. They drop us behind the enemy by surprise, then we get to dig in and make the enemy charge us. And we never have to worry about supply lines, or fields of fire. When you are surrounded, you can shoot any direction you want."
Lessons:
1) If you are proud of what you do, be PROUD. If you aren't don't tear anyone else down because of YOUR lack.
2) Grow a thicker skin about other people being proud of what they did.
3) Don't make it personal. Don't take it personally, unless it was MEANT to be personal.
4) And if after all this, you are still mortally offended by someone calling you a jarhead, grunt, dirty leg, tread head, bean counter, chick infantry, cannon cocker, zoomie, squid, ... whatever, please tell me how it feels to be so weak and spineless that mere words can hurt you? Go find something to make you proud of yourself and quit looking to others for validation of your reason for existence.
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I'm pretty sure I was called "dumb Grunt", "bullet-sponge", "knuckledragger", and any number of other derisive terms as an infantryman and I returned in kind. Anyone who served in the GWOT knows how blurred the lines became and how many MOS's found themselves engaged in combat because what started as a Civil Affairs mission to a village could easily devolve into a protracted fire fight at any minute. But I don't think they have a real case. This is the military and we have a tough job to do, if you can't handle some ribbing from your colleagues how can anyone expect to handle the stresses of combat? If someone doesn't want to be called a POG then they need to toughen up and return fire, that's the only way they will get respect, not by whining to the newspaper.
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First, I think there is a world of difference between talking in general about POGs and actually singling out one individual as a POG.
Recognize that the general statement isn't as much derogatory to the POGs as it is a statement of shared misery which grunts are subject to. If you've never woken up when water started filling your nose because the place you rolled your sleeping bag out became a pond, then you never were a grunt. If you didn't sleep in a shell crater wearing full uniform and kevlar, you never were a grunt. If you never jumped from an airplane, hoisted 100 pounds of gear on your back, and went for a 10-mile forced march at 0200, you never were a grunt.
I'm not likely to call someone a POG to their face, unless we are BOTH joking, or unless they were telling me how much smarter they were to have a nice, cushy billet while I was freezing my cojones off. And if you are stupid enough to say that to a grunt, maybe you are a POG.
Respect. What goes around, comes around. But otherwise, try to make allowances for people expressing shared misery - and proud of it.
Recognize that the general statement isn't as much derogatory to the POGs as it is a statement of shared misery which grunts are subject to. If you've never woken up when water started filling your nose because the place you rolled your sleeping bag out became a pond, then you never were a grunt. If you didn't sleep in a shell crater wearing full uniform and kevlar, you never were a grunt. If you never jumped from an airplane, hoisted 100 pounds of gear on your back, and went for a 10-mile forced march at 0200, you never were a grunt.
I'm not likely to call someone a POG to their face, unless we are BOTH joking, or unless they were telling me how much smarter they were to have a nice, cushy billet while I was freezing my cojones off. And if you are stupid enough to say that to a grunt, maybe you are a POG.
Respect. What goes around, comes around. But otherwise, try to make allowances for people expressing shared misery - and proud of it.
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Having served 6 years in the AF and 7 years in the Army and deploying both as a Crew Chief always on a big base with all the fixins, and a Line Medic out in downtown Baghdad on patrols I can say people that use terms like this are either joking around and giving fellow brothers and sisters in arms a hard time or they are very ignorant to the logistical concerns of war and need to learn a few things. I give friends in different branches of service or in different MOS' a hard time and joke but I am never just outright disrespectful and mean about it because I know everyone has their role to fill in making sure the Grunt at the tip of the spear has what he needs (bullets, food, gear, radios, training, etc) in order to kill the enemy. People that get offended by words like POG, Fobbit, TOC roach etc for the most part need to toughen up and realize it's mostly just a hard time between brothers. Everyone likes to think they are the best thing since sliced bread, 11B's give 19D's shit, 19D's give 19K's shit, etc etc; when I was a medic downrange I gave my guys shit about being "dumb" grunts and they gave me shit about being an AF POG because of my old job. It was nothing but love mean, cold blooded love between comrades. The only time I have really gotten pissed was when I was told by a 20ish year old 11B fresh out of AIT that I was a stupid medical POG and he was a hardcore killer because he went to sand hill at Ft. Benning. I made sure I schooled him on how things worked in the military and how utterly ignorant and retarded he sounded. So in synopsis I would say either give them a hard time back, shut up and deal, or change jobs but please please please stop crying about it :-D
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PO3 (Join to see)
"People that use terms like this are either joking around and giving fellow brothers and sisters in arms a hard time or they are very ignorant to the logistical concerns of war and need to learn a few things." You are absolutely correct with this, but unfortunately it seems like the majority of the people using these terms fall into the second category and that is why it's becoming a problem (like the kid who called you a "stupid medical POG").
Your advice to "give them a hard time back, shut up and deal, or change jobs but please please please stop crying about it" is fine for those service members from the first group, ribbing their fellow soldier/sailor/Marine, but those in the second group need to square that shit away and gain knowledge and respect.
I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: If it weren't for supplies, soldiers on the front could not fight... What good is the tip of the spear without the shaft driving it forward or the hand that guides it?
Your advice to "give them a hard time back, shut up and deal, or change jobs but please please please stop crying about it" is fine for those service members from the first group, ribbing their fellow soldier/sailor/Marine, but those in the second group need to square that shit away and gain knowledge and respect.
I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: If it weren't for supplies, soldiers on the front could not fight... What good is the tip of the spear without the shaft driving it forward or the hand that guides it?
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CPT (Join to see)
PO3 (Join to see) But the whole purpose of support being there is to support the fight. I would agree the vogue calling someone a POG is foolish. I have support guys in my company that I call my bothers. They are not infantry or combat arms. But they have shown their value. Even if they aren't doing their job, at times they don't have anything to fix, they are asking how can they help. That is what I am talking about.
If you are a mechanic and you don't have any vehicles to repair and while the infantry are pulling missions and tower guard at the same time while you are just sleeping in and going to MWR all day wearing all the snivel gear the army has ever made, You are a POG. I have never called or referred to the support soldiers in my company as that because they are not POGs. They are not Grunts but they are not POGS to any degree.
If you are a mechanic and you don't have any vehicles to repair and while the infantry are pulling missions and tower guard at the same time while you are just sleeping in and going to MWR all day wearing all the snivel gear the army has ever made, You are a POG. I have never called or referred to the support soldiers in my company as that because they are not POGs. They are not Grunts but they are not POGS to any degree.
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Personally I don’t care what the infantry call me. I usually call them trench monkeys, everybody in the service have a job and a funny name. I don’t see it of a issues of who is better than who. We all are part of a puzzle and doing our job we made that puzzle complete to win wars.
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CPT (Join to see)
True. I am called many names from "Weekend Warrior" and "Nasty Girl." I have done more in the Guard than they have done in the RA. But it is all just a name.
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SSG (Join to see)
People this days have a soft skin. No body can't sustain them self without each other jobs. So who really care about names.
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CPT (Join to see)
When people see the guard patch when I go to bragg we get the evil eye. I am able to avoid it by having a RA combat patch and a tab.
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