Posted on Apr 16, 2019
(READ UPDATE!!!) How do you handle a situation where a Soldier is wearing a deployment patch they did not earn? What are the repercussions?
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Backstory: Soldier went in country (Iraq) for 6 days and went back to Kuwait. He now feels entitled to be able to wear a "combat patch" (his words not mine). Regulation states must be 30 days in country (combat zone; not Kuwait anymore) to qualify for a deployment patch.
((UPDATE)): I just learned from several people AR 670-1 has been updated to reflect that the amount of days boots on ground no longer matters. Most up-to-date AR 670-1 states:
"The military operation must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer" (i.e. OIF, OIR, etc...)
"Soldiers of all Army components (Active, ARNG, and USAR) who deploy during periods of service designated for wear of the SSI–FWTS are authorized to wear a SSI–FWTS. There are no time-in-theater requirements for authoriza-tion to wear the SSI–FWTS. Soldiers may not earn more than one SSI–FWTS during the same deployment."
The Soldier can wear his deployment patch and I already let him know I made a mistake. Leaders make mistakes but it's how we fix or respond to those mistakes that matter. Good learning experience. Thank you to everyone who provided constructive feedback.
((UPDATE)): I just learned from several people AR 670-1 has been updated to reflect that the amount of days boots on ground no longer matters. Most up-to-date AR 670-1 states:
"The military operation must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer" (i.e. OIF, OIR, etc...)
"Soldiers of all Army components (Active, ARNG, and USAR) who deploy during periods of service designated for wear of the SSI–FWTS are authorized to wear a SSI–FWTS. There are no time-in-theater requirements for authoriza-tion to wear the SSI–FWTS. Soldiers may not earn more than one SSI–FWTS during the same deployment."
The Soldier can wear his deployment patch and I already let him know I made a mistake. Leaders make mistakes but it's how we fix or respond to those mistakes that matter. Good learning experience. Thank you to everyone who provided constructive feedback.
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 63
As far as wearing it... Is there a memo authorizing wear of that patch in their file? No... take it off, I don't care if you actually HAVE earned it or not. Until you have that memo, you are NOT authorized to wear it, earned or not. He can go argue with the HR Specialists.
My ex had that issue, he was told he MUST wear that unit's combat patch after they went through the patching ceremony, that he wasn't allowed to wear the 3 other patches he had memos for. They didn't like it when he reminded them that the regulation stated that leadership could NOT direct him on wear of any authorized combat patch (he was willing to sandwich for the ceremony itself, but had no intention of sandwiching for the duration, he routinely rotated through his patches). They tried to tell him that he couldn't wear any of them, he pulled up memos specifically authorizing him to wear them... he now keeps copies of all his memos for combat patches and ribbons readily available (he got some ribbons that I don't think he is supposed to be authorized, but he DOES have orders for them, so he wears them, while I scratch my head).
My ex had that issue, he was told he MUST wear that unit's combat patch after they went through the patching ceremony, that he wasn't allowed to wear the 3 other patches he had memos for. They didn't like it when he reminded them that the regulation stated that leadership could NOT direct him on wear of any authorized combat patch (he was willing to sandwich for the ceremony itself, but had no intention of sandwiching for the duration, he routinely rotated through his patches). They tried to tell him that he couldn't wear any of them, he pulled up memos specifically authorizing him to wear them... he now keeps copies of all his memos for combat patches and ribbons readily available (he got some ribbons that I don't think he is supposed to be authorized, but he DOES have orders for them, so he wears them, while I scratch my head).
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Not my service, not my time... but I seem to recall that many things were resolved by a Chief doing a little "one-on-one". My personal opinion (if anyone cares) is that any insignia, award, or organizational clothing items should be clearly indicated by SOP, memorandum, or orders... and not subject to the ambiguities of the "Gouge". Beyond that, the whole "combat patch" thing kinda mystifies me anyway... but I know there's tradition at work there.
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I would have him / her show me the regulation where wearing a combat patch after 6 days in country is authorized. If he / she can't show you the reg, the Soldier's own research tells him / her what is his / her course of action
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1LT (Join to see)
Top, how does that work when Soldiers don't know the regulation themselves? I had a Soldier wearing a patch and I made him take it off but I also knew the CDR he deployed with and his Training NCO. If I didn't know them personally I might not have been able to verify if he was authorized to wear it or not.
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I can tell you right now... fuck the 81BCT! Fuckers were useless, over shadowed everything and tried to push their bullshit on soldiers who hated their life. Combat patches by some gay as hell national guard unit when our direct command was AD and I never reported to a NG unit while in Iraq? Yup, AD unit took command of my NG unit and never wanted us to wear their gay ass patch. 1Cav rolled in ans didn't give a shit, my command on the other hand required to see both patches, which I never dis.
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Something else to think about.
Sometimes a blanket order is issued. for instance:
Bravo Company, 1st of the 501 is entitled to wear the 82nd DIV patch as F-WTS, for service in Iraq form xx date to xx date.
This order implies you had to be in country, but does not specifically state it, and as such anyone in that company can wear that patch, if they served in that time frame. It is a bad order, but that shit happens.
Most soldiers would know that they were not entitled to the patch, if they were not in country, and would honor that. Some will do anything to look tough.
Sometimes a blanket order is issued. for instance:
Bravo Company, 1st of the 501 is entitled to wear the 82nd DIV patch as F-WTS, for service in Iraq form xx date to xx date.
This order implies you had to be in country, but does not specifically state it, and as such anyone in that company can wear that patch, if they served in that time frame. It is a bad order, but that shit happens.
Most soldiers would know that they were not entitled to the patch, if they were not in country, and would honor that. Some will do anything to look tough.
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From AR 670-1:
a. General. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet the following criteria in subparagraph (1) below:
(1) Required criteria—
(a) The Secretary of the Army or higher must declare the theater or area of operation as a hostile environment to which the unit is assigned or Congress must pass a Declaration of War.
(b) The units must have actively participated in or supported ground combat operations against hostile forces in which they were exposed to the threat of enemy action or fire, either directly or indirectly.
(c) The military operation normally must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer. An exception may be made when U.S. Army forces are engaged with a hostile force for a shorter period of time, when they meet all other criteria, and a recommendation from the general or flag officer in command is forwarded to the Chief of Staff, Army.
(d) The Chief of Staff, Army must approve the authorization for wearing the SSI for FWTS.
Note: Units are not authorized to modify their SSI or SSI–FWTS without prior approval from the DCS, G-1. A mirror image SSI-FWTS is considered a modification. In addition, TIOH must approve the design of any modification and authorize its manufacturing in accordance with paragraph 2–3.
(2) Personnel who served in a designated area as a civilian or a member of another Service, but were not a member of the U.S. Army during one of the specified periods are not authorized to wear the SSI-FWTS.
(3) Unless otherwise approved by this regulation, Soldiers attached or under operational control (OPCON) to other services are not authorized to wear their patches as their SSI-FWTS without written approval from DCS, G-1 or a designated representative.
(4) Soldiers of all Army components (Active, ARNG, and USAR) who deploy during periods of service designated for wear of the SSI-FWTS are authorized to wear a SSI-FWTS. There are no time-in-theater requirements for authorization to wear the SSI-FWTS. Soldiers may not earn more than one SSI-FWTS during the same deployment.
a. General. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet the following criteria in subparagraph (1) below:
(1) Required criteria—
(a) The Secretary of the Army or higher must declare the theater or area of operation as a hostile environment to which the unit is assigned or Congress must pass a Declaration of War.
(b) The units must have actively participated in or supported ground combat operations against hostile forces in which they were exposed to the threat of enemy action or fire, either directly or indirectly.
(c) The military operation normally must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer. An exception may be made when U.S. Army forces are engaged with a hostile force for a shorter period of time, when they meet all other criteria, and a recommendation from the general or flag officer in command is forwarded to the Chief of Staff, Army.
(d) The Chief of Staff, Army must approve the authorization for wearing the SSI for FWTS.
Note: Units are not authorized to modify their SSI or SSI–FWTS without prior approval from the DCS, G-1. A mirror image SSI-FWTS is considered a modification. In addition, TIOH must approve the design of any modification and authorize its manufacturing in accordance with paragraph 2–3.
(2) Personnel who served in a designated area as a civilian or a member of another Service, but were not a member of the U.S. Army during one of the specified periods are not authorized to wear the SSI-FWTS.
(3) Unless otherwise approved by this regulation, Soldiers attached or under operational control (OPCON) to other services are not authorized to wear their patches as their SSI-FWTS without written approval from DCS, G-1 or a designated representative.
(4) Soldiers of all Army components (Active, ARNG, and USAR) who deploy during periods of service designated for wear of the SSI-FWTS are authorized to wear a SSI-FWTS. There are no time-in-theater requirements for authorization to wear the SSI-FWTS. Soldiers may not earn more than one SSI-FWTS during the same deployment.
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Agree. He did not earn it and is NOT ENTITLED to a combat patch for only 6 days.
CPT Roberts
CPT Roberts
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As a general rule, I was never a patch, ribbon, or badge collector.
I'm the sort who would have added the deployment patch after a superior prompted me to do so.
Just how I am, in particular.
I'm the sort who would have added the deployment patch after a superior prompted me to do so.
Just how I am, in particular.
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Being authorized to wear a combat patch doesn’t necessarily mean a soldier saw combat. When someone says “I’m a combat veteran “, I generally take it with a grain of salt, especially if they were someplace like Bagram AB where you’re more in danger of getting killed by a moving vehicle or tripping on a PT belt than by enemy fire.
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Combat Patches for soldiers is hard enough to figure out, it gets even more complicated for soldiers who served with Marine Units, Marines who left their service and joined the Army Reserve or National Guard who think they are authorized a combat patch, and aren't, but see Soldiers wearing Marine Patches that may be authorized (I say maybe, as the last time I read 670-1 it was for those who were attached to Marines for the first 30 days of the Invasion, not for the next ten years. But some USMC Commander gave them orders so now it must be legal). it does get confusing and really it should be more cut and dry then it is.
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I joined the SF national guard unit after Nam for about one and one-half years. I receive a combat infantry badge from them. They said my time in Nam as a marine counted. I felt uncomfortable wearing it because of who I had served with. After the fall of Nam, I threw all the medals away.
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Yikes! I had that happen on an Iraq deployment in 2005. I rated a USMC combat patch because I was USMC when I earned it, downrange and deployed during the Gulf War in 1991. I wore it. A Ssg in my unit was attached to a USMC unit for a week and came back wearing their combat patch. The BC ripped it off of his sleeve in my presence. Ssg started to complain that because I wore a 2dMarDiv patch, he could as well. BC set him straight. I don't understand why the Army is slacking on the requirements now, maybe because combat awards, in general, are slacking and slow in coming?
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Something doesn't sound right about that, but the best way to make sure you right is to go talk to JAG about it.
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Gee that's a Tough One "Not" as senior elinsted take the person aside in private & speak to them about it & then tell to remove not a tough descion & I have been retired almost 20yrs.
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Thanks for the update. I earned multiple patches during my first deployment. While I was still in, I wore whichever one I felt like wearing that day. However, if I saw a soldier (rank immaterial) whom I KNEW was wearing a combat patch, badge, or other item I KNOW they didn't earn, I'd call them out on it. Rank junior to me, immediate action. Rank senior to me, remind them of their commitment to "do what's right, legally and morally." Often times, I'd get told (insert expletive or derogatory comment here) and that would make me either email them a copy of the section of the regulation that pertains to the particular infraction, show them a hard copy of the section, or in the most extreme cases, take it up with their senior. All because you outrank me doesn't mean I won't tell you that you're wrong, nor will it stop me from reminding you that these junior soldiers who want to be leaders one day are looking at you for the right example. If you fail them on the little things, who's to say that you won't fail on the big things? (Yes, I've seen it happen...and lost troops because of it.)
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The so-called Soldier is in violation of Art. 134 “Service Discrediting Conduct” and “Conduct Contrary to the Good Order & Discipline of the Armed Services”.
Jack this one up with a Charge Sheet. When it shows up in the Art. 15 Hearing the outcome needs to be reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay and confinement to barracks.
Suspend the punishment for 3 months. That way when he defies Army Regulations again, the suspension is vacated and you get to bust, fine & confine all over again.
Everyone who works with this guy knows he is a wannabe dirtbag. If the Command doesn’t address it, then the C.O. is obviously weak and should be replaced. If the measures are followed, the other 98% of the Organization will not want to screw up.
Also, Administratively Separate the malcontent for failure to adapt to the military lifestyle.
Jack this one up with a Charge Sheet. When it shows up in the Art. 15 Hearing the outcome needs to be reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay and confinement to barracks.
Suspend the punishment for 3 months. That way when he defies Army Regulations again, the suspension is vacated and you get to bust, fine & confine all over again.
Everyone who works with this guy knows he is a wannabe dirtbag. If the Command doesn’t address it, then the C.O. is obviously weak and should be replaced. If the measures are followed, the other 98% of the Organization will not want to screw up.
Also, Administratively Separate the malcontent for failure to adapt to the military lifestyle.
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1LT (Join to see)
Sir what he did was authorized. Even the author came back and said he discovered he was wrong in his initial guidance.
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LtCol Paul Bowen
1LT (Join to see)
I stand corrected. Anyone else pretending to recognition they did not earn, you jack them up via UCMJ.
I stand corrected. Anyone else pretending to recognition they did not earn, you jack them up via UCMJ.
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If everything else fails go by the Regs, after all that's what they are for. DAPAM 31-10 will never let you down tells where you can find anything.
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Active duty soldiers are processed to wear any and all declarations applied to and/or sewn into their dress attire and sewn in declarations are on all military attire. Declarations worn on a military uniform any other way is a fraud, disrespect to the uniform, and dealt with at the discretion of anyone who observes it although a formal action is to report it to your next chain of command when you are not a commissioned officer yourself.
I say the perpetrator is the merchant who sells military paraphernalia in their store, it shouldn't be allowed at least medals and awards that soldiers risk life and limb to receive.
I say the perpetrator is the merchant who sells military paraphernalia in their store, it shouldn't be allowed at least medals and awards that soldiers risk life and limb to receive.
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So I have met an individual that brags about being a combat expert to the platoon, but I have seen his ERB and the only overseas I seen on there is Korea overseas. He claims he was deployed to Iraq but I didn't see the Iraq campaign. I think situation like that are a bit depressing because young soldiers look up to individuals like that.
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