Posted on Nov 8, 2015
Recalling a life event that occured 50 years ago using a word closely resembling what occured, is it a lie if you didnt know the difference?
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If you were recalling a significant life event that happened to you over 50 years before and you used a synonym or something close to describe part of the event, does that constitute a lie if you didnt know the difference (Scholarship versus appointment; which means tuition, room, and board)? Or does this constitute a witch hunt as Dr. Carson has stated?
WASHINGTON, Nov 6 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson's recollection of being offered a scholarship to the prestigious U.S. Military Academy at West Point was questioned on Friday, potentially damaging the credibility of the 64-year-old retired neurosurgeon.
Also on Friday, Carson's account of how he attempted to stab a friend in his troubled youth came under renewed scrutiny.
Carson, a favorite of conservative activists, who is tied with Donald Trump at the top of Republican primary polls a year before the November 2016 presidential election, has often recounted both tales from his 1990 autobiography on the campaign trail, as he trumpets his rise from poverty in inner-city Detroit to the highest echelons of medicine.
On Friday, Carson's campaign said he never sought admission to West Point, while Carson himself gave a slightly different account of the stabbing incident, describing the boy he lunged at as a close relative instead of a friend.
"These are little things that get at his credibility," said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who is not working for any of the 2016 presidential candidates. "He's coming in there as an outsider who is honest and a breath of fresh air. If his whole life story is undermined by these little inaccuracies it could have a negative effect."
Carson told Fox News his account of the West Point scholarship offer "could have been more clarified." He is planning to participate in a live interview on Sunday morning on CBS's "Face The Nation," where he will likely face tough questions.
"Voters care about candidate integrity," said Laura Stoker, a political science professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "But people - especially those who already favor Carson - will resist allegations until information is definitive."
Carson's supporters seemed unperturbed, and doubted whether the candidate had been inaccurate.
"If I had a general come up to me when I was 17 years old and try to convince me to go to West Point and he told me my expenses would be paid, I don't think it would be so far-fetched to think he offered me a scholarship," said Warren Galkin, 86, of Warwick, Rhode Island, who has given money to a political action committee supporting Carson's campaign.
WEST POINT SCHOLARSHIP
In his autobiography, "Gifted Hands," Carson wrote that as a high school student he dined with General William Westmoreland in 1969. "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," he wrote, saying that he turned it down. "As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn't really tempted."
Carson's campaign said on Friday that his grades and conversations with officials of the ROTC, which provides preliminary military training for students interested in becoming officers, constituted a de facto acceptance to the academy, which provides full scholarships to all of its students. But it said Carson never actually applied or was admitted to West Point.
"His Senior Commander was in touch with West Point and told Dr. Carson he could get in, Dr. Carson did not seek admission," Carson's campaign spokesman Doug Watts told Reuters in an email.
"Dr. Carson, as the leading ROTC student in Detroit, was told by his Commanders that he could get an Appointment to the Academy," Watts said. "He never said he was admitted or even applied."
West Point on Friday said there was no record of Carson completing an application for admission. It is possible someone nominated him for the academy, but that would only have been an early step in the multi-part process of admission.
"Candidate files where admission/acceptance was not sought are retained for three years; therefore we cannot confirm whether anyone during that time period was nominated to West Point if they chose not to pursue completion of the application process," West Point spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said in an email to Reuters.
"No one can enter the academy without completing the entire admission process," she added.
The differing accounts of Carson's West Point scholarship were first reported by political news website Politico, in a story headlined "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship."
Carson's campaign contested that interpretation.
"The Politico story is an outright lie," Watts said in an email to Reuters. "The campaign never 'admitted to anything.'"
CARSON HITS BACK
The fracas over West Point came only hours after Carson attacked the media for questioning his accounts of a violent past.
"This is a bunch of lies," Carson told CNN on Friday. "This is what it is, it's a bunch of lies attempting, you know, to say that I'm lying about my history. I think it's pathetic."
Carson, who is popular with evangelical voters, often speaks on the campaign trail about flashes of violence during his youth, casting the lessons he learned from that period as evidence he has the strength of character to be president.
In his autobiography, the renowned brain surgeon wrote that as a teen, he tried to stab a friend named Bob in the stomach with a knife, but the boy's belt buckle blocked the knife.
On Thursday on the campaign trail, when pressed by reporters about the incident and also in an interview with Fox News, Carson said that Bob's name, along with some other names in the autobiography, were pseudonyms that he used to protect the privacy of the people he was writing about.
He described Bob in the book as a friend and classmate. In the Fox News interview and on CNN, Carson said the boy was a "close relative."
WASHINGTON, Nov 6 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson's recollection of being offered a scholarship to the prestigious U.S. Military Academy at West Point was questioned on Friday, potentially damaging the credibility of the 64-year-old retired neurosurgeon.
Also on Friday, Carson's account of how he attempted to stab a friend in his troubled youth came under renewed scrutiny.
Carson, a favorite of conservative activists, who is tied with Donald Trump at the top of Republican primary polls a year before the November 2016 presidential election, has often recounted both tales from his 1990 autobiography on the campaign trail, as he trumpets his rise from poverty in inner-city Detroit to the highest echelons of medicine.
On Friday, Carson's campaign said he never sought admission to West Point, while Carson himself gave a slightly different account of the stabbing incident, describing the boy he lunged at as a close relative instead of a friend.
"These are little things that get at his credibility," said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who is not working for any of the 2016 presidential candidates. "He's coming in there as an outsider who is honest and a breath of fresh air. If his whole life story is undermined by these little inaccuracies it could have a negative effect."
Carson told Fox News his account of the West Point scholarship offer "could have been more clarified." He is planning to participate in a live interview on Sunday morning on CBS's "Face The Nation," where he will likely face tough questions.
"Voters care about candidate integrity," said Laura Stoker, a political science professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "But people - especially those who already favor Carson - will resist allegations until information is definitive."
Carson's supporters seemed unperturbed, and doubted whether the candidate had been inaccurate.
"If I had a general come up to me when I was 17 years old and try to convince me to go to West Point and he told me my expenses would be paid, I don't think it would be so far-fetched to think he offered me a scholarship," said Warren Galkin, 86, of Warwick, Rhode Island, who has given money to a political action committee supporting Carson's campaign.
WEST POINT SCHOLARSHIP
In his autobiography, "Gifted Hands," Carson wrote that as a high school student he dined with General William Westmoreland in 1969. "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," he wrote, saying that he turned it down. "As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn't really tempted."
Carson's campaign said on Friday that his grades and conversations with officials of the ROTC, which provides preliminary military training for students interested in becoming officers, constituted a de facto acceptance to the academy, which provides full scholarships to all of its students. But it said Carson never actually applied or was admitted to West Point.
"His Senior Commander was in touch with West Point and told Dr. Carson he could get in, Dr. Carson did not seek admission," Carson's campaign spokesman Doug Watts told Reuters in an email.
"Dr. Carson, as the leading ROTC student in Detroit, was told by his Commanders that he could get an Appointment to the Academy," Watts said. "He never said he was admitted or even applied."
West Point on Friday said there was no record of Carson completing an application for admission. It is possible someone nominated him for the academy, but that would only have been an early step in the multi-part process of admission.
"Candidate files where admission/acceptance was not sought are retained for three years; therefore we cannot confirm whether anyone during that time period was nominated to West Point if they chose not to pursue completion of the application process," West Point spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said in an email to Reuters.
"No one can enter the academy without completing the entire admission process," she added.
The differing accounts of Carson's West Point scholarship were first reported by political news website Politico, in a story headlined "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship."
Carson's campaign contested that interpretation.
"The Politico story is an outright lie," Watts said in an email to Reuters. "The campaign never 'admitted to anything.'"
CARSON HITS BACK
The fracas over West Point came only hours after Carson attacked the media for questioning his accounts of a violent past.
"This is a bunch of lies," Carson told CNN on Friday. "This is what it is, it's a bunch of lies attempting, you know, to say that I'm lying about my history. I think it's pathetic."
Carson, who is popular with evangelical voters, often speaks on the campaign trail about flashes of violence during his youth, casting the lessons he learned from that period as evidence he has the strength of character to be president.
In his autobiography, the renowned brain surgeon wrote that as a teen, he tried to stab a friend named Bob in the stomach with a knife, but the boy's belt buckle blocked the knife.
On Thursday on the campaign trail, when pressed by reporters about the incident and also in an interview with Fox News, Carson said that Bob's name, along with some other names in the autobiography, were pseudonyms that he used to protect the privacy of the people he was writing about.
He described Bob in the book as a friend and classmate. In the Fox News interview and on CNN, Carson said the boy was a "close relative."
Politics
ROTC
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point)
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 49
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THIS IS ALL ABOUT POLITICS. THE LEFT WING MEDIA IS TRYING TO DIG UP DIRT ON DR CARSON CAUSE THEY FIND HIM A THREAT TO HILLARY DID HE MISSPEAK I WOULD SAY HE DID EVERYONE OF THESE CANIDATES HAS TOLD A LIE OR TWO OR IN CLINTONS CASE A TRUCK LOAD OF LIES NOT CONDONING IT BUT THIS IS WHAT POLICTICS HAS BECOME HEY HILLARY CLAIMED THAT HER HELICOPTER WAS UNDER GUN FIRE WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE ONE OF HER MANY LIES
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG Robert Spins, thank you for your contribution, sir, but is there a reason why you are yelling, sir? No, need to rise to that level.
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SSG Robert Spina
MSG THERE IS NO YELLING INTENDED IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO MY USE OF UPPER CASE LETTERS ITS JUST A HABIT I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO YELLING INTENDED
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MAJ (Join to see)
I really doubt that the left sees Carson as a threat. The left would love for Carson to win the GOP nomination, as he is unelectable and the Democratic candidate would win a general election against Carson in a landslide.
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its such a stupid thing for the media to be attacking him on...guess they are pretty desperate since their hillary wont be getting elected.
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SrA Art Siatkowsky
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid= [login to see] 458815&id= [login to see]
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I wish all these candidates would treat this like any other job interview. Stick to the facts and tell the truth. No fabrication, just the facts.
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SGT Francis Wright
MSgt (Join to see) - I'm sure they do. But when ones life is so much in the public eye, one needs to watch what they say. Would you really want her to be CINC? I feel it would just be disastrous; but that's just me.
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MSgt (Join to see)
SGT Francis Wright - Believe me there is not one candidate on the DNC side that I would think of voting for right now. I think it says a lot when the party who currently holds the office can't even come up with any good people to run. They had at their peak something like four candidates and they are down to three now. Outside of hillery and bernie I am not sure who that third person is without googling.
The RNC had as many as 17 at one point I think. I am not sure who I am going to vote for there because our primary is not until April. Not even going to push for someone yet until it gets closer and a few more drop out. Could be an interesting RNC convention if there are still more than two or three candidates.
The RNC had as many as 17 at one point I think. I am not sure who I am going to vote for there because our primary is not until April. Not even going to push for someone yet until it gets closer and a few more drop out. Could be an interesting RNC convention if there are still more than two or three candidates.
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SGM (Join to see)
CPT Anthony Asquith, excellent point, sir, at the time of the book the point was not for political gain, but the editor/publisher may have embelished some of his story or he may have just not recalled it accurately, regardless I do not believe he intended to mislead anyone. Especially those of us in the military as we do know the difference between Scholarship, Appointment, or Recommendation.
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Sgt James Howard
Not only that, but what he said was true. Check out his FB page. He does the due diligence that the press failed to do. He disproves the major alleged "lies" with a few newspaper clippings from his past. Seems the liberal media didn't look very hard for evidence that would corroborate Carson's story. They were looking with the intent of finding nothing.
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Let's just use the term we have heard so often in the past few years.
He misspoke.
He misspoke.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Sure, I think this would be a good way for Carson to handle this. He could just say "Look, I misspoke. I was 17, and I didn't understand exactly what the situation was. As I look back on this now, and as my staff tells me that there's a hugely long and difficult process to get into West Point, it's clear that Westmoreland never offered me a scholarship/appointment to Weat Point."
Carson though, has gone another route, and is steadfastly standing by his original, verifiably false, story.
Carson though, has gone another route, and is steadfastly standing by his original, verifiably false, story.
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He wrote a biography. he is running for president. All is fair game. And honesty matters.
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SGM (Join to see)
CAPT Tom Bersson, Yes, sir, honesty and integrity is all anyone really has of their own. Once you lose that, what have you, sir? However, I do not believe Dr. Carson lied.
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CAPT Tom Bersson
SGM (Join to see) - Perhaps he did not. It does appear that at a minimum he embellished.
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SrA Art Siatkowsky
What about Hillary? She lied, destroyed emails, etc, etc, etc, and the press downgrade it to make her look good. If anything this shows how absolutely ridiculous the media bias is against Republicans.
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LTC Kevin B.
SGM (Join to see) - Those words were indeed used against GHWB. I see that as being somewhat different though. In that case, GHWB actually said and meant that (although he did eventually break that promise). In the other cases, what they said was either technically inaccurate (in the case of Carson) or taken completely out of context (in the case of the others). Using a verbal technicality or a deliberate misinterpretation for political gain is disingenuous, at best. Using a broken promise is fair game.
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SGM (Join to see)
LTC Kevin B. at the time of the writing, sir, there was no political gain to be had, perhaps additional sales, though. As for President Bush, he still made the promise knowing full well that he could not truly guarantee such a thing. What he should have said was I will do everything in my power to prevent new taxes.
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LTC Kevin B.
SGM (Join to see) - You have misinterpreted my comments about political gain. I'm referring to gain for those who are now attacking him. I was not referring to Ben Carson trying to gain politically 20 years ago (when he wrote his book). I don't necessarily disagree about your comments on Bush. However, even if he said that, he still would have broken that promise.
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a tricky question. Can one lie without intent? Not sure. In his case, he should have known better as he brought them out in his auto-biography.
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I think that anyone who runs for public office opens themselves up to microscopic scrutiny and that any tidbit that is juicy or can be twisted to make headlines is going to happen.
What I care most about is if these politicians are going to do anything of substance to keep our country great.
I really don't care if Candidate X smoked weed at a party on a Friday night in 1964.
I really don't care if Candidate Y got a speeding ticket and was caught with an open container of beer when they were 18 in 1970.
I really don't care if Candidate Z talked to one of the service academies and was told they would be a great fit there but decided to go elsewhere for an education.
I do care if any Candidate has done things to improve their life and also to improve our country.
I do care if any Candidate is willing to make the hard choices that a President has the guts to stand by their decision without blaming anyone or anything.
What I care most about is if these politicians are going to do anything of substance to keep our country great.
I really don't care if Candidate X smoked weed at a party on a Friday night in 1964.
I really don't care if Candidate Y got a speeding ticket and was caught with an open container of beer when they were 18 in 1970.
I really don't care if Candidate Z talked to one of the service academies and was told they would be a great fit there but decided to go elsewhere for an education.
I do care if any Candidate has done things to improve their life and also to improve our country.
I do care if any Candidate is willing to make the hard choices that a President has the guts to stand by their decision without blaming anyone or anything.
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