Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Reenlistment; is it ever possible to back out after signing?
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I have a buddy who got a great job offer in Colorado but he has signed his reenlistment papers already but hasn't done his reenlistment ceremony yet. Can he back out still or is he out of luck?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
The DD Form 4 Series is the legal and binding CONTRACT that is an agreement between the reenlistee and the U.S. Government that the reenlistee agrees to voluntarily commit more years of service to their respective branch and the United States of America. Whether a ceremony occurred before or after the signing of these documents is irrelevant.
Unlike an ENLISTMENT contract where there may be a "delayed entry option" before actually being sworn in to the active component, generally speaking there is no provisions to "change your mind", "back out of the contract", have "buyer's remorse", etc. When you sign the contract and it is valid, you are legally bound to uphold your obligation.
Unlike an ENLISTMENT contract where there may be a "delayed entry option" before actually being sworn in to the active component, generally speaking there is no provisions to "change your mind", "back out of the contract", have "buyer's remorse", etc. When you sign the contract and it is valid, you are legally bound to uphold your obligation.
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You are not ever committed. There is always a way out. It might not be honorable, but there is a way out. If he signed papers promising to defend our nation for X amount of year, and he is willing to ditch that for a higher paying job, he should not be in the military right now to begin with. He never cared about defending our nation, he just wants a job.
Though I left the Army after my initial enlistment, I never tried to weasel my way out of what I signed up for. I made a deal with the United Sates of America. As much as the job was not fun at times, I am a man, and I am only as good as my word. I have little to no respect for someone who tries to weasel their way out of commitments they agreed to.
Though I left the Army after my initial enlistment, I never tried to weasel my way out of what I signed up for. I made a deal with the United Sates of America. As much as the job was not fun at times, I am a man, and I am only as good as my word. I have little to no respect for someone who tries to weasel their way out of commitments they agreed to.
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SGT Suraj Dave
You figured me out MSgt Bill Jones. I only pretend to be patriotic because I am really a dishonest and unscrupulous human being. That must be it. They just wrote "Honorable" on my discharge by mistake. All of those awards must have ended up there by mistake. Oh, and if you google up my name "SGT Suraj Dave" that article the division commander of the 101st wrote about me must be fake, he was probably drunk or something.
Yep, you got me. I didn't join the U.S. Army because I loved America. I didn't extend for the second deployment because I loved America either. I was secretly just pretending to be patriotic because I am a scoundrel.
Man, I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you MSgt Bill Jones. You found me out. Nothing gets past you. That's probably why you are in the Airforce and I was in the Army.
Yep, you got me. I didn't join the U.S. Army because I loved America. I didn't extend for the second deployment because I loved America either. I was secretly just pretending to be patriotic because I am a scoundrel.
Man, I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you MSgt Bill Jones. You found me out. Nothing gets past you. That's probably why you are in the Airforce and I was in the Army.
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SGT Suraj Dave
Well that's just too bad for me isn't it.
I am really proud of my faith and my service.
I guess I am disqualified from meeting Msgt Bill Jones definition of a "True Patriot".
I better call the V.A. and make sure this doesn't change the status of my discharge or take away from any of my benefits.
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Alright, so for the next round we should switch things up a bit. You quote a Frenchmen this time (Translated into English Of course)
And I will reply to you with a quote from an Englishman!
I am really proud of my faith and my service.
I guess I am disqualified from meeting Msgt Bill Jones definition of a "True Patriot".
I better call the V.A. and make sure this doesn't change the status of my discharge or take away from any of my benefits.
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Alright, so for the next round we should switch things up a bit. You quote a Frenchmen this time (Translated into English Of course)
And I will reply to you with a quote from an Englishman!
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Easy, SGT Suraj Dave. There is no need to disparage other branches in this "discussion".
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SGT Suraj Dave
Not a clue. I was just playing along. I guess at some point I must have offended him or something which is why he started this whole thing. Regardless, I apologize MSgt Bill Jones
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Not uncommon to sign before the ceremony/oath. Sorry but more then likely out of luck.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Yup. The Re-Enlistment certificate is just proof that the ceremony occurred and there was a Commissioned Officer there to administer the Oath and serve as a witness.
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If the paperwork he signed was for the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) [which in my experiance is the only time I have known people to sign paperwork before the oath at MEPS] then, yes he can back out.
Anyone can request release from DEP and it is current DOD policy to allow that without issue, though he may get the runaround for awhile with the recruitment officer.
Anyone can request release from DEP and it is current DOD policy to allow that without issue, though he may get the runaround for awhile with the recruitment officer.
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SGT Chris Birkinbine
Woops, just realized you said REenlistment, not enlistment. Yeah, the ceremony is nothing, it is the paperwork that matters. His only way out is medical or dishonorable at this juncture I think.
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Sgt (Join to see)
I agree. He is better off just staying in because it can take forever to get a medical discharge.
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SGT Chris Birkinbine
Well once you get them to agree you need to be discharged, the PEB board is a 3 month process. My 3 month process took 9 months :D
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Capt Jeff S.
If the military is over-manned and is trying to draw-down its numbers, it almost certainly stands to reason that he could find a way to be let out of his commitment. It makes no sense to kick people out that want to stay in and keep people in that want to get out.
In all my years, I've seldom seen situations where "No" is the final answer. It only is, when people aren't willing to turn over stones and find ways to accomplish what others say can't be done. If an officer sufficiently high in your friend's chain of command decided to let him out of his contract and wrote a letter to manpower, they'd find a way to let your friend out. Just depends on how much his chain of command wants to stick their necks out and help him.
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International Standard Version
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act.
In all my years, I've seldom seen situations where "No" is the final answer. It only is, when people aren't willing to turn over stones and find ways to accomplish what others say can't be done. If an officer sufficiently high in your friend's chain of command decided to let him out of his contract and wrote a letter to manpower, they'd find a way to let your friend out. Just depends on how much his chain of command wants to stick their necks out and help him.
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International Standard Version
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act.
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Sorry to break it to you mate - but the ceremony is just a formality - the minute you initial and sign the contract, and your commander signs his part - you have a contractual obligation.
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He'd need to check with legal. He probably could but would get an RE-4 discharge code.
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The ceremony should be done before the paperwork. When the Officer signs they are signing that the oath has been sworn before me. If the oath has not been done yet then why were they signing the document?
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I always found it funny that a contract needed to be signed for whatever length of commitment in an all volunteer military. Sort of invalidates the whole "volunteer" aspect of it in my humble opinion.
In nearly every other job out there, if a better opportunity presents itself, you are free to resign your position and move on, usually with a two week notice. The only time this is not the case is when your company has paid for certain training, certifications or degrees and requires a length of time commitment from you in return. You are still free to resign your position but usually you are responsible for reimbursing the company the monies they paid out on your behalf.
The same thing goes for those who take on employment, then find that they are completely unhappy with the professional choice they've made. They are free to resign their position with little or no consequence.
Our all volunteer military, on the other hand, doesn't allow for for this, at least for enlisted members. It's my understanding that an officer, once their initial commitment based on their commissioning source is fulfilled, is free to resign their commission at any time and move on if a better professional opportunity presents itself or they just want to leave service. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Enlisted are afforded no such latitude, with the exception of senior enlisted I believe. Many times, when an enlisted member want to leave service, for whatever reason, they are held to the contract they were required to sign for reenlistment. This sometimes results in a soldier becoming resentful, then doing what they feel they need to do to be removed from service, often ending in a dishonorable discharge. The command, as I've seen in the past, tends to drag out the discharge process for as long as possible while the senior enlisted make life as miserable as possible for that soldier in the mean time.
I've blabbed on enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that this soldier may now end up becoming disgruntled because he will be forced to honor a service commitment that he volunteered for and give up a professional opportunity because of a signature. I hope this doesn't happen and wish him the best of luck.
In nearly every other job out there, if a better opportunity presents itself, you are free to resign your position and move on, usually with a two week notice. The only time this is not the case is when your company has paid for certain training, certifications or degrees and requires a length of time commitment from you in return. You are still free to resign your position but usually you are responsible for reimbursing the company the monies they paid out on your behalf.
The same thing goes for those who take on employment, then find that they are completely unhappy with the professional choice they've made. They are free to resign their position with little or no consequence.
Our all volunteer military, on the other hand, doesn't allow for for this, at least for enlisted members. It's my understanding that an officer, once their initial commitment based on their commissioning source is fulfilled, is free to resign their commission at any time and move on if a better professional opportunity presents itself or they just want to leave service. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Enlisted are afforded no such latitude, with the exception of senior enlisted I believe. Many times, when an enlisted member want to leave service, for whatever reason, they are held to the contract they were required to sign for reenlistment. This sometimes results in a soldier becoming resentful, then doing what they feel they need to do to be removed from service, often ending in a dishonorable discharge. The command, as I've seen in the past, tends to drag out the discharge process for as long as possible while the senior enlisted make life as miserable as possible for that soldier in the mean time.
I've blabbed on enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that this soldier may now end up becoming disgruntled because he will be forced to honor a service commitment that he volunteered for and give up a professional opportunity because of a signature. I hope this doesn't happen and wish him the best of luck.
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I think the key here is: What "PAPERWORK" did he sign?
I never saw someone sign the contract until the actual ceremony took place. Now is all he signed were the request to reenlist and it went up the chain of command, that is not a binding contract. I think we need to know exactly what he signed.
I never saw someone sign the contract until the actual ceremony took place. Now is all he signed were the request to reenlist and it went up the chain of command, that is not a binding contract. I think we need to know exactly what he signed.
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SPC(P) Estus Hibbard
I agree with you in that I've never seen the re-enlistment form signed by anyone either, officer or enlistee, until after the oath was already given.
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