Posted on Jul 16, 2017
Reservists, specifically those who work around commissioned ships, do you come to attention and salute the flag when you cross the brow?
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Saluting
Reserves
Customs and Courtesies
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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I still look around for the flag and involuntarily salute the stern even though I have been retired for 10 years. Good habits die hard I guess. I get some strange looks in the oil patch.
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WOW! Looking at the question alone and without the background, the answer is, of course, a nonqualified YES! As a retired Sailor, anytime I go aboard a U. S. Navy Vessel I render honors as if I am in uniform, but not salute, just come to attention as I face the ensign and the OOD. I also request permission to come aboard, but when leaving report that I have permission to leave the ship.
Any reservist would of course also live by these rules when reporting on or off a ship. That is IF he or she was activated for duty, not inactive. There is a difference. (Civilian guests do not render honors.)
HOWEVER, after reading your reply to SCPO (Join to see) that is a bag of worms, to say the least. Being a Command Master Chief I would say that, IF in uniform, yes, render honors. That is the right thing to do. However, unless the Commanding Officer has ever made it clear the S/he wants to change NOAA Policy since the crew is treated as civilians, there is really no reason to render honors as if the ship is a U.S. Navy Ship. This is MY best Guess.
When I go aboard a civilian cruise ship I do not render honors, but if I go aboard a foreign Man-of-War I do. NOOA in all respects is not treated as a M-o-W.
Any reservist would of course also live by these rules when reporting on or off a ship. That is IF he or she was activated for duty, not inactive. There is a difference. (Civilian guests do not render honors.)
HOWEVER, after reading your reply to SCPO (Join to see) that is a bag of worms, to say the least. Being a Command Master Chief I would say that, IF in uniform, yes, render honors. That is the right thing to do. However, unless the Commanding Officer has ever made it clear the S/he wants to change NOAA Policy since the crew is treated as civilians, there is really no reason to render honors as if the ship is a U.S. Navy Ship. This is MY best Guess.
When I go aboard a civilian cruise ship I do not render honors, but if I go aboard a foreign Man-of-War I do. NOOA in all respects is not treated as a M-o-W.
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LT (Join to see)
CMDM,
This was a friendly conversation among colleagues, and I am the Port Engineer in question, and no she is not a man of war. My first few weeks on the job the CO told me more than once to stop nuking things out . . .it isn't a submarine (I only very recently left AD at a sub repair yard). :) The ship's officer's know my background as it was very obvious in my resume when the CO elected to hire me,and the first time I met the ship I was still on active duty and they were moored at the base where I greeted them as CDO. I have had to run aboard one or twice on a weekend when I was on IDT because they are in overhaul and my signature was needed to close out tanks. In that case I did render honors as do the the ship's officer's, and saluted the CO who found it rather amusing as we normally work as equals. I am rather new to not having naval officer as my full time position and work both with NOAA and CG . . .it was an adjustment needing to work several CG O-6's and O-5's as equals in managing my ship's overhaul. As you say some things are a bag of worms, our NAV argues that a commission has no expiration and no limits, that was true while I was on active duty I'm not quite sure that is true for a reservist . . .
This was a friendly conversation among colleagues, and I am the Port Engineer in question, and no she is not a man of war. My first few weeks on the job the CO told me more than once to stop nuking things out . . .it isn't a submarine (I only very recently left AD at a sub repair yard). :) The ship's officer's know my background as it was very obvious in my resume when the CO elected to hire me,and the first time I met the ship I was still on active duty and they were moored at the base where I greeted them as CDO. I have had to run aboard one or twice on a weekend when I was on IDT because they are in overhaul and my signature was needed to close out tanks. In that case I did render honors as do the the ship's officer's, and saluted the CO who found it rather amusing as we normally work as equals. I am rather new to not having naval officer as my full time position and work both with NOAA and CG . . .it was an adjustment needing to work several CG O-6's and O-5's as equals in managing my ship's overhaul. As you say some things are a bag of worms, our NAV argues that a commission has no expiration and no limits, that was true while I was on active duty I'm not quite sure that is true for a reservist . . .
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LT (Join to see)
P.S. We have an OOD but they are not the quarterdeck watch. Similar to an MSC ship we are unarmed.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
LT (Join to see) - I understand the differences fully and agree. If I were coming aboard, it would never occur to me to render honors. Yes, I have been to and on NOAA ships in the past.
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Ma'am,
Could you clarify? What is the distinction with reservist? I will go out on a limb and assume that a Reserve Competent Sailor was detailed to, had AT, ADT, ADSW orders or was visiting the said vessel and failed to cross properly? If it is a Sailor who did not do so, then they are at fault. The rules are the same regardless of AC vs RC and it is failure of that Sailors leadership to properly train said Sailor on the proper Customs and Courtesies. CMDCM Gene Treants
Could you clarify? What is the distinction with reservist? I will go out on a limb and assume that a Reserve Competent Sailor was detailed to, had AT, ADT, ADSW orders or was visiting the said vessel and failed to cross properly? If it is a Sailor who did not do so, then they are at fault. The rules are the same regardless of AC vs RC and it is failure of that Sailors leadership to properly train said Sailor on the proper Customs and Courtesies. CMDCM Gene Treants
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LT (Join to see)
CMDCM, The ship in question is a NOAA Ship. She is a commissioned ship and commanded by a commissioned officer of the NOAA Corp. The sailor in question is her Port Engineer, who serves aboard her in a civilian capacity, not in their capacity as a naval officer. Her Second Assistant Engineer is also a Navy reservist as is her Chief Electronics Technician, both of these are also civilian positions. It was a point of comment recently among the NOAA Corps officers, that much like the civilian mariners with no military affiliation (NOAA Corp does not have enlisted members) aboard, the three reservists do not customarily stop and salute the flag when crossing the brow. Note that none of the people in question are in uniform. I am more than willing to accept that I am wrong, and certainly it is because of my Navy background that I have this position, but that is not my role aboard the ship . . . .and the few times I was aboard in uniform I saluted both the flag and my colleagues.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
LT (Join to see) - since they are not Active - they do not have to render honors - see my complete answer.
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