Posted on Sep 30, 2014
LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
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Should the NCO creed be revised? Or should the NCO creed to be taught, learned, and taken to heart by the NCO corps?
Posted in these groups: 95567026 NCO Creed
This is a duplicate discussion. Click below to see more on this topic.
SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
I'm prepared for the down votes, but hear me out on a thought of a rewrite of the NCO creed. I'm not looking to reduce the impact of statements given in the NCO creed. Simply I would like to see a rewrite of the structure. I've seen many NCOs focus so much on remembering the words in the proper order that they do not pay attention to the words. Often this makes the person only key in on certain phases of it and forgetting part of it, and relearning it every NCOES they attend.
My main reason for this blog is to bring about the importance of whats in the message and not having them focus on the structure of the message. I'm not sure who does, but I never use the word uppermost in my writing or speaking. Also as I write I would like to have a flow in my writing ; as I think this would assist people with remembering.
We are at a paradigm shift in the Army and military, in which is what brought about the writing of the NCO creed. If your not sure about the history... it was proposed by a SFC after the Vietnam conflict; it was suppose to keep the NCO's focused on the mission. They wanted to three paragraphs to start with N, C, and O.
So what are your thoughts?
Responses: 14
CSM Director, Market Development
No need to revise. I utilize the creed in professional development. Break it down and have a discussion about each section. Ask for feedback on examples of how NCOs should work, live and act in parallel with the words of the creed.
MSG Wade Huffman
I see no reason to revise it, and I also see no reason for 'memorizing' it either (at that is from someone who previously taught ANCOC where it was a requirement). What is important is that NCOs LEARN, UNDERSTAND, AND ACT according to it, which is much different that just memorizing the words.
LTC Mark Gavula
I don't think the NCO creed needs to be revised. By your question, I am assuming you think or have some doubts about the NCO Corp as a whole, or an NCO did not perform to your expectations. I have to make a couple of points. First, I believe many of today's NCOs are very technically and tactically proficient, however, I believe they were promoted very early in their careers to SSG, SFC and 1SG.

From 2004 to the time I retired, many 19D SSGs were promoted to SFC with an average TIS of eight or nine years because the Army requirements for 19Ds increased tremendously. Yes, I believe they were very technically and tactically proficient. However, they lacked the military maturity to deal with the leadership, personal problems, training the platoon leader, the ability to coach, train and mentor, etc. When I was a platoon leader I had two PSGs, both with 15+ years TIS. SFC Wallace, my first PSG, knew when to let me take enough rope to hang myself and when the rope was about to tighten around my neck he would a activate his contingency plan to pull me out of a jam with the Troop Commander. My CSM used to state, the reason why the SFC (in a perfect world) is the first NCO rank teamed with an officer at the platoon level is because he/she is supposed to possess the military maturity to coach, teach and mentor that lieutenant. I think this is missing in today's NCO Corps. I believe, we are seeing the 2d and 3d level effects of this today in units because of early promotions a decade ago.

I read some of the discussions blaming the lack of discipline on the ACU, not having black boots to shine, BDUs to press, not having barracks with CQs, etc. It is the lack of this military maturity among the NCO Corps. The lack of leadership know how and intuitiveness. So it is my estimation we have two generations of NCOs that may have been affected by this. I am sure there are other issues such as officers providing too much management, lack of trust in subordinates, officers and NCOs afraid to make the tough right decision over the easy wrong, no decisions etc. I read in a discussion that a CSM said, there is no NCO's business, it is leader's business. I would really like to know what that means. I believe the NCO creed states that no officer will do my job for me.

Finally, the NCO Creed is just words and anyone can recite it. However, translating it into action is where the rubber meets the road.
LTC Mark Gavula
LTC Mark Gavula
10 y
MSG Ramon Hidalgo-Acosta I agree that being labeled as a born leader is misleading.  There are many factors that contribute to those that have the attributes and character to be a leader.  The manner in which one was raised is a major contributor to one possessing the attributes for one to become labelled a born leader. 
1SG Ronald Philips
1SG Ronald Philips
10 y
Being an antique scout (retired pre 2000), I enters service a was in Vietnam. My Senior Drill was one of the first returnees to become a Drill, and I learned very fast to trust his leadership.
We were taught to train one up and two down. You learned your next higher job and the next two jobs in the squad.
When I transitioned to Armor; you became a driver first, loader second and gunner last. Most one termed would possibly make gunner, but in most if not all of my crews you had to become proficient in your job before you were promoted.
We were promoted fast in Vietnam due to either casualties or rotations and after the war our readiness dropped due to lack of knowledge of the MOS.
This has happened after every conflict, and we have never taken the time to ensure both officer and enlisted are retrained and cross trained to become proficient in their positions and are properly trained to move up to the next one.
I wish someone could/would devise or design a retrain program to ensure that we are proficient in all aspects of the MOS.
LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
LTC (Join to see)
10 y
LTC Mark Gavula the question was posed as the Army changes over the decade and with war you lower the standards and it is only a matter of time that those people who would of never been in the Army if we were not at war will get promoted and therefore some discipline slips and it is those few apples that multiple and stain the good corps whether officer or NCO. Not saying I have a bad NCO, but I have seen a few overall that make you wonder how they got promoted and some of how they even go into the military. That is true for all ranks. I just asked about the NCO creed as there are a lot of NCOs who harp on it and a lot depends on the NCO creed at conferences such as NCO summits, but I have never seen an officer summit or had anyone recite the officer creed.
LTC Mark Gavula
LTC Mark Gavula
10 y
Since Christ was a corporal there have been poor NCOs, or stripe wearers. However, it does not mean the NCO creed needs to be revised to accommodate the poor performers. I would recommend all junior officers and NCOs read the FM (don't remember the numbers) entitled , "Roll of the Non-Commssioned Officer. It is a great manual that was written when SMA Jack Tilley was the SMA. The FM's forward is written by CSM Elder, a MOH recipient. It explains what being an NCO is all about. I have never been an NCO, but I do know my success was dependent on them. I do not know what NCO summits are, and I never required my NCOs to recite the NCO creed. I just knew what right looked like because I was coach, taught and mentored by some great NCOs. As for the Officer Creed, I never knew it existed. I do hope you live by it, if you expect your NCOs to live by the NCO Creed.

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