Posted on Oct 22, 2015
Robert Bales claims his massacre of 16 civilians in Afghanistan is uniquely different from those mass shootings in the US. Agree?
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“I was so angry at these [Afghani] guys for putting their families in harm's way like that,” he said. “So I blamed them, but I took it out on [the women and children]. I was just raging.” Bales was an army staff sergeant aged 39 on his fourth deployment to a combat zone in 2012.
Military officials said he had been drinking before creeping away from base in the Panjwayi district of southern Kandahar, armed with a pistol, a rifle and a grenade launcher. Witnesses said he opened fire on sleeping families before burning some of dead bodies.
At one point he returned to tell a fellow soldier, “I just shot up some people.”
In the interview he said he been suffering from stress, non-stop anger – caused by guilt at failing to prevent an attack that maimed a friend when Bales was on sentry duty - and was using steroids, when he went into “autopilot” and launched his murderous raid. He said he thinks about his actions again and again.
“I can't take it back,” he said. “If I could, I would. Not just because I'm gonna be in prison for the rest of my life. Because of the cost. No conscious person wants war. No conscious person wants to kill people.”
But he also said he feels he let down his fellow troops.
“I want to say to those guys that I hurt—my guys, the patriot brotherhood—I want them to know I'm sorry,” he said. “I don't want nothing but good things for my soldiers. I hope that in some way they can understand how sorry I am. They're my family, and I love them.”
He also tried to distance himself from other American mass shooters such as James Holmes, who murdered 12 people at midnight screening of Batman film The Dark Knight Rises.
“It wasn't like I was looking to go into a school and open up on a bunch of kids,” he said. “That doesn't make it right. I'm not trying to make it right. I can't make it right. The difference between a soldier and a thug is authority, and I didn't have authority. But it's not the same as walking into a movie theatre and opening up on a bunch of people in a Batman movie.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/11947019/Robert-Bales-says-he-was-on-autopilot-when-he-massacred-16-Afghan-civilians.html
Military officials said he had been drinking before creeping away from base in the Panjwayi district of southern Kandahar, armed with a pistol, a rifle and a grenade launcher. Witnesses said he opened fire on sleeping families before burning some of dead bodies.
At one point he returned to tell a fellow soldier, “I just shot up some people.”
In the interview he said he been suffering from stress, non-stop anger – caused by guilt at failing to prevent an attack that maimed a friend when Bales was on sentry duty - and was using steroids, when he went into “autopilot” and launched his murderous raid. He said he thinks about his actions again and again.
“I can't take it back,” he said. “If I could, I would. Not just because I'm gonna be in prison for the rest of my life. Because of the cost. No conscious person wants war. No conscious person wants to kill people.”
But he also said he feels he let down his fellow troops.
“I want to say to those guys that I hurt—my guys, the patriot brotherhood—I want them to know I'm sorry,” he said. “I don't want nothing but good things for my soldiers. I hope that in some way they can understand how sorry I am. They're my family, and I love them.”
He also tried to distance himself from other American mass shooters such as James Holmes, who murdered 12 people at midnight screening of Batman film The Dark Knight Rises.
“It wasn't like I was looking to go into a school and open up on a bunch of kids,” he said. “That doesn't make it right. I'm not trying to make it right. I can't make it right. The difference between a soldier and a thug is authority, and I didn't have authority. But it's not the same as walking into a movie theatre and opening up on a bunch of people in a Batman movie.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/11947019/Robert-Bales-says-he-was-on-autopilot-when-he-massacred-16-Afghan-civilians.html
Warfare
Crime
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 42
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Fuck him. Countless others have been other the same situations as him and countless more have been in it worse. I don't care what it is that is claimed "PTSD" "disassociation" it doesn't release him of his actions anymore than being impaired by alcohol releases you of responsibility of a dui
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1SG (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see), I am with SPC (Join to see) on this one. I am not going on a witch hunt, but I would question very harshly the Platoon and Company leadership. To have a Squad Leader this close to the edge, using steroids, and drinking and this comes as a surprise strains credulity. Not to mention that he can just walk off the COP unchallenged. These men live in close quarters and interact constantly. Bales' issues weren't exactly new either.
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CSM (Join to see)
Walking off the COP has me puzzled. If he can walk off then somebody can just walk on unchallenged. People can hide their drinking. I heard stories, long after the fact, of guys getting whisky mailed to them in listerene bottles. We even had somebody once get booze from a coalition force. An engaged chain-of-command can catch many things before they become problems. A Corporal checking the barracks, doing proper POV/motorcycle inspections and being involved with his or her Soldiers goes a long way towards nipping things in the bud. Like anything hindsight is always 20/20.
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SPC (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) - My belief CSM is that he didn't walk off unnoticed. That one I just don't believe. Someone noticed him. Someone was aware of his absense. Someone just looked the other way though.
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CSM (Join to see)
I respect your opinion, and that is certainly possible, but I would be surprised if that that is the case. He may have simply known about some dead space that could not been seen from a position or he waited until a guard went to the latrine or was not paying attention.
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He's wrong. Just like those that committed acts of sheer cowardice here in America with mass shootings, he made a conscious decision. It was the WRONG one, and giving excuses does not excuse the behavior. He didn't go after those who did the wrongs, but rather family members who had nothing to do with what had happened. He did this in their sleep, so they had no way to defend or try to help themselves. As with the other cases here in the US, one word comes to mind and that's COWARDICE. We ALL get mad and upset in battle. NO ONE likes to see one of their own hurt, but our discipline tells us who to direct our rage on, and even limits how far we take it. Inmate you are a COWARD, and hurt those families in ways you shouldn't, but along with that, you hurt the trust in us, and whether we stay one more day or ten more years, this and others misdeeds will dog us.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Juan Corpus - Get back to me when you can form a complete sentence. If you can take the time to come here and run your suck, at least make it coherent. As far as the creed. nope I've made plenty of them. Note the example I used. The FIRST LINE. For all of my mistakes, I've never murdered, maimed, or did any damage to anyone that did not directly deserve it. So no "Super NCO" here bruh. Just a professional one. But like I said before, we can continue this the moment you are able to form basic sentences with some kind of punctuation. We're done with this discussion.
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SSgt Ed Gamble
PTSD is a strange illness. It has different effects on different people. If it causes you to commit a crime, you will have your day in court and be judged. Whatever the outcome is you will have to face it. It may be a contributing factor in the crime you committed, but it can't be held as an excuse, unless your attorney can get you an insanity plea. But, as veteran brothers and sisters, it is up to us to be our brother's keeper. If you see your brother headed down this path, talk to him. Let him blow off some steam. We can do a whole lot about this ourselves.
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CSM (Join to see)
So, let me weigh in with my $.02 worth. PTSD MAY have played a roll in this case. Many of us have PTSD to some degree or another. Everybody has an emotional limit that once reached requires help. Help can be in the form of professional counseling from Behavior Health professionals, or something as benign as having a friend who you can confide in. I believe what we should be concentrating the discussion on is how we can better see signs of stress and maladjustment in each other.
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SSG Warren Swan
CSM (Join to see) - You're correct CSM. And there are other threads where folks have been actively discussing in positive ways to help one another. I don't believe for a second anyone on this site wants nothing but the best for one another no matter if we agree or disagree on things here. But in this particular case, PTSD "could" be a contributing factor, but no matter what he made a decision to harm, and that decision harmed the innocent people. We all have seen or heard of someone we know, love, or were in charge of loosing their lives either in the heat of battle there, or in the heat of battle in their own minds here in the states. But along with the condition, comes a decision not to harm people hopefully. We all have breaking points without a doubt; but know yourself and seek self improvement is a leadership trait, and my 1SG when I deployed didn't let that get past us no matter what was going on.
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This MF'er...
Calm...
This guy trying to make excuses...
I will not forgive him. I will not forget just how much dishonor he foisted upon each and every one of us through his terrible actions. He is right where he should be, for a very long time.
If I get a chance, I want to visit the villages he decimated to do what I can to recover our Army's honor. I would ask them if there is anything they'd like to say to Bales, and deliver that message personally, if they'd let me.
Calm...
This guy trying to make excuses...
I will not forgive him. I will not forget just how much dishonor he foisted upon each and every one of us through his terrible actions. He is right where he should be, for a very long time.
If I get a chance, I want to visit the villages he decimated to do what I can to recover our Army's honor. I would ask them if there is anything they'd like to say to Bales, and deliver that message personally, if they'd let me.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well, I got the opportunity to visit that village on a frequented basis. Granted it was usually around midnight to 0300 on our way to Talucan or Mushan, but the eeriness and air was something you'll never forget. The moments when they set-up rock stacks in the middle of the road knowing you are going to roll them. Having live ordinance at CP 17 - 19. My point is, it doesn't matter what you "think" you would have hoped to do in that village. They would have held out their hands and accepted anything that you wanted to give them and then turn around and target my convoy rolling through there that same night.
Do you know what it's like to listen to the chatter on your position and how they will be potentially ambushing you? Yet, you're not at your home base so you have to move out anyways. Ever wonder who is giving them your position? People seem to misunderstand that it's a war. Things happen, whether they are good or bad. I just find it funny how we try to determine the mindset of someone and whether he was justified in his actions.
Think about this for a minute. How about you flip the situation around, A member of the Taliban, in broad day, hands a magnetic IED to a child to place under your vehicle as your forced to travel at a snail's pace through their village because all the women and children are unknowingly blocking your path. You can't run them over because they're non combatants, but what can you do? Send out our Terp with TC exposing them or try to move them through the loudspeaker. Of course this doesn't work where you eventually have to get out and communicate with someone to get the fuck out of the way. Meanwhile, as you begin to get out of your Maxpro and the gate is down for your Terp everything suddenly goes black. The only thing you can remember is Boom, Boom, Boom.
The aftermath is you're down, your terp is down, and 20 civilians (women and children) are down. All the while the Taliban member continues to videotape his glorious actions. Knowing that a week from now he will be praised by his leadership for carrying out a successful attack on a US Convoy. The end result, 24 casualties. 23 of which are women and children and 1 US Coalition Terp is KIA.
The point of this is they will kill 200 of their own in order to kill 1 of you. They are greeted with praise and tales of fortune yet we will castrate any of our own who even shit the wrong way. You want to hold someone accountable? Start with his command leadership and work your way up all the way to the White House. The best part is, most of you will look at this as me siding with the SSG. What he did was morally fucked up, but did so in reactions to a morally fucked up place.
Shit, look at PVT Bergdahl. Traitor, that got his own killed and was praised for his glorious release from capture. Now he is being charged because someone has a little bit of sense however it doesn't change the simple truth that my brothers and sisters are expendable. Kill 300 of us and 1 child and guess who will get the most attention? Maybe everyone should stop saying he is accountable for his actions. We are accountable for his actions, but I guess we will always need someone to blame.
Do you know what it's like to listen to the chatter on your position and how they will be potentially ambushing you? Yet, you're not at your home base so you have to move out anyways. Ever wonder who is giving them your position? People seem to misunderstand that it's a war. Things happen, whether they are good or bad. I just find it funny how we try to determine the mindset of someone and whether he was justified in his actions.
Think about this for a minute. How about you flip the situation around, A member of the Taliban, in broad day, hands a magnetic IED to a child to place under your vehicle as your forced to travel at a snail's pace through their village because all the women and children are unknowingly blocking your path. You can't run them over because they're non combatants, but what can you do? Send out our Terp with TC exposing them or try to move them through the loudspeaker. Of course this doesn't work where you eventually have to get out and communicate with someone to get the fuck out of the way. Meanwhile, as you begin to get out of your Maxpro and the gate is down for your Terp everything suddenly goes black. The only thing you can remember is Boom, Boom, Boom.
The aftermath is you're down, your terp is down, and 20 civilians (women and children) are down. All the while the Taliban member continues to videotape his glorious actions. Knowing that a week from now he will be praised by his leadership for carrying out a successful attack on a US Convoy. The end result, 24 casualties. 23 of which are women and children and 1 US Coalition Terp is KIA.
The point of this is they will kill 200 of their own in order to kill 1 of you. They are greeted with praise and tales of fortune yet we will castrate any of our own who even shit the wrong way. You want to hold someone accountable? Start with his command leadership and work your way up all the way to the White House. The best part is, most of you will look at this as me siding with the SSG. What he did was morally fucked up, but did so in reactions to a morally fucked up place.
Shit, look at PVT Bergdahl. Traitor, that got his own killed and was praised for his glorious release from capture. Now he is being charged because someone has a little bit of sense however it doesn't change the simple truth that my brothers and sisters are expendable. Kill 300 of us and 1 child and guess who will get the most attention? Maybe everyone should stop saying he is accountable for his actions. We are accountable for his actions, but I guess we will always need someone to blame.
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1SG (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see), I understand all too well that the folks in that village will never take anything I say and suddenly change their ways.
Do you know what is like to look into the eyes of a grieving father, who just lost his son from a stray bullet, his home and all that he owns strewn about after a search, looking for a weapons cache and taking his rifle - his only means to defend himself in a savage land - and telling him his boy's life is worth $2000? I have, and no matter how you feel about Afghans, if you have a soul it is terrible.
The Afghan people, particularly the ones in the Pashto tribal areas, will never be our friends. But the human touch of a man with children of his own making the trip to their village and facing that grief and rage and hopelessness and offering a man's understanding... it does have value and worth. He may be my enemy yesterday, hate me today, and be my enemy again tomorrow, but for a small moment in time we have something in common.
I pray someday that enough Afghans will realize just how valueless their lives are to the Taliban, and eject them from their homes and towns and back into the hills and caves where they belong. It may never happen, but one person at a time, I know that human contact has an effect. It is worth it, even if I leave a small part of my humanity on the floor every time I have to do it.
Do you know what is like to look into the eyes of a grieving father, who just lost his son from a stray bullet, his home and all that he owns strewn about after a search, looking for a weapons cache and taking his rifle - his only means to defend himself in a savage land - and telling him his boy's life is worth $2000? I have, and no matter how you feel about Afghans, if you have a soul it is terrible.
The Afghan people, particularly the ones in the Pashto tribal areas, will never be our friends. But the human touch of a man with children of his own making the trip to their village and facing that grief and rage and hopelessness and offering a man's understanding... it does have value and worth. He may be my enemy yesterday, hate me today, and be my enemy again tomorrow, but for a small moment in time we have something in common.
I pray someday that enough Afghans will realize just how valueless their lives are to the Taliban, and eject them from their homes and towns and back into the hills and caves where they belong. It may never happen, but one person at a time, I know that human contact has an effect. It is worth it, even if I leave a small part of my humanity on the floor every time I have to do it.
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